[CTSVBiggie]

[Expunge]

One thing not mentioned, insurance costs are substantially higher on the '15 F-150's because Aluminum is not easy to repair. Can't just bondo it up.

[Snoman]

Both Steel and Aluminum technologies are outdated and have been for decades. Arguably, there hasn't been a significant design change in trucks in 20 years, certainly nothing prompting 200-400% rise in pricing. Engine, cab and a bed....wait, the taillights went LED...wait, not yet. Loaded Yukon XL's about 6 years ago were ~$40k, today GM wants $65k for less product, but ...you can get $10k off..eh? Yet, the truck market is still the most profitable segment of the market, keep raising prices!

B2 was discovered last year by South Korea, but supposedly not marketable "any time soon" and the company Modumetal out of Seattle is working on "growing nano metal" (wtf?), but also not scalable. Others are experimenting with carbon and bird feathers (don't ask), but it's more for aerospace. Though the industry is already heavily invested in carbon and mass production (some nearly 100%)...but not auto's, no... can't have that.

James Cameron went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, but the tech doesn't exist for an evolution change for better trucks and cars? We're going to breech $40k for cloth base models very soon.

Originally Posted by CTSVBiggie

That's some good stuff right there.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Snoman

Both Steel and Aluminum technologies are outdated and have been for decades.

Arguably, there hasn't been a significant design change in trucks in 20 years, certainly nothing prompting 200-400% rise in pricing. Engine, cab and a bed....wait, the taillights went LED...wait, not yet. Loaded Yukon XL's about 6 years ago were ~$40k, today GM wants $65k for less product, but ...you can get $10k off..eh? Yet, the truck market is still the most profitable segment of the market, keep raising prices!

And in that time, inflation has caused the price of almost everything to nearly double. Couple that with pickups transitioning from pure work vehicles to near luxury vehicles and the increase in price makes sense.

B2 was discovered last year by South Korea, but supposedly not marketable "any time soon" and the company Modumetal out of Seattle is working on "growing nano metal" (wtf?), but also not scalable. Others are experimenting with carbon and bird feathers (don't ask), but it's more for aerospace. Though the industry is already heavily invested in carbon and mass production (some nearly 100%)...but not auto's, no... can't have that.

You do understand that not being scalable is a gigantic problem if you are going to be going through hundreds of millions of pounds of the stuff per year, right (like a pickup truck maker would)? Just because a professor and a few techs can make a 1 kg test sample in a lab doesn't mean that a steel mill can turn a knob or two and reproduce it by the ton. Some of those materials you mention have potential, but there is no conspiracy by auto makers to keep it down. If anything, they're probably the ones driving a lot of the research into steels with better strength to weight ratios.

Even if that 'B2' steel (yes, its a type of steel) has a lot of unknowns to it. How do you make a million tons of it per year? What is its fatigue resistance like? What is its long-term chemical stability like? How does it respond to environmental conditions (temperature, corrosion resistance, etc)? Does it creep? Can it be welded? If so how, and what are the joints like, and what types of steel can it be welded to safely? Those are all very important questions. Without knowing them (along with countless others) it is not a marketable material.

And carbon (by which I assume you mean carbon fibre, as every car built has several dozen pounds of carbon in it) simply isn't cost effective as a primary building material for most automotive applications. And since you abhor the idea of a pickup truck costing $40,000 with a cloth interior I would assume you are cost conscious. Carbon fibre costs something on the order of 10x as much as steel. Additionally, cycle times for carbon fibre are generally not compatible with trying to crank out 100k units per year. In aerospace, weight carries a much greater penalty making it economically advantageous to cut pounds from an airframe. And for the record, I would hardly call aerospace volumes 'mass production'. Dozens to hundreds of units a year is the norm, around 1/1000 that of automotive production.

James Cameron went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, but the tech doesn't exist for an evolution change for better trucks and cars?

Yes, he something that others did half a century ago. I fail to see how a multi-million dollar tube that can sink then float has much to do with the auto industry though.

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I hear ya, but it does not take this long for innovation to move so slow. Many of the 'luxury' innovations have been available in other world markets for 15 years or more by these same manufactures. While it might not be a conspiracy to hold the tech advances back, there is no profit in pushing it forward either.

For example, Ford doubled their labor rates for "all aluminum related work" to $120-150/hr, but most dealers have been told not implementing it until "mass sales waves have completed" in hopes to lower the PR fallout. Minor repairs take the same time and effort as steel while major repairs take less than half the time and are cheaper.

Carbon Fiber today is no longer 10x the price of steel, primarily because heat baking is no longer required. The cost on a Camaro hood today is under $250/pp USD, with most of the "expense" being marketing hype.

It is not politically correct to build something stronger, faster, lighter, more luxurious and to do so cheaper. The technology is available and has been, but manufactures refuse to pursue it.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by CTSVBiggie

THIS IS WHY

I find that ad ironic bc isnt GM moving to aluminum for pick ups in 2018?

Originally Posted by Expunge

One thing not mentioned, insurance costs are substantially higher on the '15 F-150's because Aluminum is not easy to repair. Can't just bondo it up.

Not 100% true. That was a big fear initially when the trucks went on sale but there was a huge thread on the F-150 Forum about insurance costs. The majority of people had their costs stay the same or go down. There was cases where it did go up for people but from what I read the majority stayed the same.

[BMR Sales]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

And in that time, inflation has caused the price of almost everything to nearly double. Couple that with pickups transitioning from pure work vehicles to near luxury vehicles and the increase in price makes sense.
You do understand that not being scalable is a gigantic problem if you are going to be going through hundreds of millions of pounds of the stuff per year, right (like a pickup truck maker would)? Just because a professor and a few techs can make a 1 kg test sample in a lab doesn't mean that a steel mill can turn a knob or two and reproduce it by the ton. Some of those materials you mention have potential, but there is no conspiracy by auto makers to keep it down. If anything, they're probably the ones driving a lot of the research into steels with better strength to weight ratios.

Even if that 'B2' steel (yes, its a type of steel) has a lot of unknowns to it. How do you make a million tons of it per year? What is its fatigue resistance like? What is its long-term chemical stability like? How does it respond to environmental conditions (temperature, corrosion resistance, etc)? Does it creep? Can it be welded? If so how, and what are the joints like, and what types of steel can it be welded to safely? Those are all very important questions. Without knowing them (along with countless others) it is not a marketable material.

And carbon (by which I assume you mean carbon fibre, as every car built has several dozen pounds of carbon in it) simply isn't cost effective as a primary building material for most automotive applications. And since you abhor the idea of a pickup truck costing $40,000 with a cloth interior I would assume you are cost conscious. Carbon fibre costs something on the order of 10x as much as steel. Additionally, cycle times for carbon fibre are generally not compatible with trying to crank out 100k units per year. In aerospace, weight carries a much greater penalty making it economically advantageous to cut pounds from an airframe. And for the record, I would hardly call aerospace volumes 'mass production'. Dozens to hundreds of units a year is the norm, around 1/1000 that of automotive production.


Yes, he something that others did half a century ago. I fail to see how a multi-million dollar tube that can sink then float has much to do with the auto industry though.

I'm surprized this hasn't made it to the Market yet

Elan Motorsports Technologies, which is marketing a body material that is lighter weight than carbon fiber -- a material gaining some use in the U.S. auto industry. Panoz calls his material Recyclable Energy Absorbing Matrix System, or REAMS. It is a composite woven from polymer threads that is about 20 percent lighter than carbon fiber.

supposedly it is also cheaper than CF, will not shatter like CF and is repairable with Heat!

[enzia35]

Ford is doing something right, beat EPS estimates by 10 cents today, and revenue by 1.96 billion dollars.

[Truck Norris]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

In general the price of the full size truck segment has lost its sh**.

Oh you want a basic 4WD cloth interior V8 truck?

That's $42,000 please.

Slightly, very very slightly, exaggerated

More like $27k for way better then basic...if you know where to look.

2015 Ram 1500, 4WD, Crew Cab, 5.7L V8, 8 speed auto, 20" wheels, Body colored bumpers and grill, Trailer tow package, 5" touch screen, 3.92 w/ anti-spin diff, etc.
.
http://www.dennisdillonchryslerjeepd...2f64f0367e.htm

[LStick]

Ain't too many unsold 2015 Ford extended cab F-150s in my area. Maybe 20.

Pricing is comparable to the 2014 leftover Double Cab Chevys I found around here. And there's bunches of them to be had.

Both trucks leave lots to be desired looks-wise at the cheap trim level.

[hockeylover86]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

You can get a Silverado LS 4WD 5.3L for $32k. Less with incentives.

If you start going crazy with options then of course you're going to get into the $40-50k range. You get what you pay for.

I know it was 8 years ago, and I know the new trucks are nice, but I only paid $34,800 for my 07 LBZ Duramax, now half ton's are $45K-$50k and diesels are $60K+.

Once the next generation HD's come out (powertrain wise) they will probably be double what I paid for my truck, in ten years time.

Have your wages doubled in ten years? Mine haven't...

I think that's why the Ford sales are suffering, the price point is just too high...

[KaBoom1701]

I'll take the Raptor...they can keep the rest of the Ford line up.

[blakjak55]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

I know it was 8 years ago, and I know the new trucks are nice, but I only paid $34,800 for my 07 LBZ Duramax, now half ton's are $45K-$50k and diesels are $60K+.

Once the next generation HD's come out (powertrain wise) they will probably be double what I paid for my truck, in ten years time.

Have your wages doubled in ten years? Mine haven't...

^^^
THIS

[Truck Norris]

Originally Posted by hockeylover86

I know it was 8 years ago, and I know the new trucks are nice, but I only paid $34,800 for my 07 LBZ Duramax, now half ton's are $45K-$50k and diesels are $60K+.

Once the next generation HD's come out (powertrain wise) they will probably be double what I paid for my truck, in ten years time.

Have your wages doubled in ten years? Mine haven't...

I think that's why the Ford sales are suffering, the price point is just too high...

Originally Posted by blakjak55

^^^
THIS

Guy's, Guy's, Guy's You just have to know where to look.

There are deals out there if you know where to look. There are nicely equipped Ram 2500 4X4, Quad Cab's with the 6.7L Cummins, Trailer hitch, 5" touch Screen, Tow mirrors, exhaust brake, chrome bumpers, anti-spin diff, front tow hooks, engine block heater etc. For less then a $1,000 more then you paid for 8-9 years ago. This truck probably has options your truck didn't come with and its only $35,755

http://www.dennisdillonchryslerjeepd...7240fb2f44.htm

I'm not a sales man, I just get frustrated when potential diesels buyers settle for half tons all because they think they cost too much money. Little do they know you can get them for $35k all day equipped the way most of us want them. I wish dealers would stop the charade and put prices like this directly on the vehicle you think they'd have increased profits.

P.S
LBZ powered Duramax is one of my fav diesels, did you land a unicorn and get one with the last year manual trans?