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Old 01-19-2020, 08:43 PM   #1
KPzypher
 
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS 1LE M6
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: NC
Posts: 28
VR blower package vs local shop

Am I retarded to even consider Vengeance Racing PD stage II package + meth...

Magnuson TVS2650R – includes Vengeance Racing valve covers and coil relocation kit
Cold Air Intake System
GM 3 Bar MAP Sensor
Mighty Mouse Solutions Catch Can System
2” Stainless Longtube Headers
3” Stainless Connection Pipes with Green Cats
GM Exhaust Gaskets
180* Thermostat
High Performance Spark Plug Set
Vengeance Racing LT Plug Wires
Vengeance Racing High-Temp Spark Plug Wire Insulators
Tuned

If I can get the following for literally like ~$2K more out the door from a local shop (very reputable)?

PC D1X: Stage II I/C, helical, race bypass valve, black finish
PP ported heads/TB/IM
PP Cam kit with upgraded parts (johnson lifters, cometic gaskets, ARP bolts)
2” TSP LT with offroad pipes
GPI Forged drop-in piston/rods
LT4 Fuel (HPFP, injectors, in-tank)
AUX lowside kit
Meth kit
FF sensor
Monster triple disc clutch
Tuned

Granted VR is based on a PD blower which is little more expensive plus valve cover and coil relocation kit, but good lord they’re expensive (going off of their web posted price). I’ve no doubt they are top notch (techs, facility), meticulous when it comes to their work, and provide fantastic customer service (e-mail exchange and good reviews), but does it warrant the extra extra extra cost? Their stage V pro charger setup is somewhat comparable (still lacking in terms of parts) but after taxes and vehicle shipping, that's well over $30K.

What do you guys think?
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:58 PM   #2
oldman


 
Drives: SS 6 speed of course
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Posts: 3,443
I'm in luv with the racing valve coves and coil relocation kit.

I'd go with the cam, heads, forged pistons, there is something to be said about an M6 with cam, heads and headers. You can look at my sound files and the LT is gonna be HECK of loud. LT no cats:


stock exhaust:https://youtu.be/AfoP1LPXdUo


I skip the meth kit and go with Lingenfelter HPFP and minimal LT4 injectors (or bigger) you are octane limited to 10 PSI or so 3.85 to 4.0 pulley. I think I'd save money on the ported tb and manifold and spend on bigger injectors.
__________________
2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:02 PM   #3
KPzypher
 
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS 1LE M6
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: NC
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
I'm in luv with the racing valve coves and coil relocation kit.

I'd go with the cam, heads, forged pistons, there is something to be said about an M6 with cam, heads and headers. You can look at my sound files and the LT is gonna be HECK of loud.
I love that sound. Yeah the TVS2650 with the valve covers and coil reolcation kit look so clean... but it's just so darn expensive. Thanks for the clip. I only replayed it like 50 times.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:07 PM   #4
oldman


 
Drives: SS 6 speed of course
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Posts: 3,443
It sounds similar at idle, but at 45 mph the stock exhaust is stock or near stock. The LT with no cats really is terrible on a M6, better with cats, even livable but I'm looking at being done and going to a C8....
__________________
2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:09 PM   #5
Joshinator99
 
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Location: Petersham MA
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VR package with the PD blower looks better to me, but I’m a PD blower fan so I might be biased. Lol. That said, getting the forged pistons put in at the same time is a good call.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple, Rotofab Big Gulp, LT5 95mm TB, LT4 fueling, AWE Touring CB with PLPs, Katech 160 TS, DSX E85 Kit, GForce 3.5” Al DS, 2” Dynatech headers w/3” cats, Velossa Tech RA
2019 Toyota Sequoia Limited 4WD (daily driver)
2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 (hers)
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:20 PM   #6
KPzypher
 
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS 1LE M6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
I skip the meth kit and go with Lingenfelter HPFP and minimal LT4 injectors (or bigger) you are octane limited to 10 PSI or so 3.85 to 4.0 pulley. I think I'd save money on the ported tb and manifold and spend on bigger injectors.
That big bore Lingenfelter is expensive. I think i'll skip meth/ff for now and stay on pump 93. That's a cheap/easy add on once I have everything else in place. Not looking for crazy power right now anyways. I just want to do everything at once (head/cam/piston/rod) so I don't have to pay extra in labor every time I open it up.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:24 PM   #7
KPzypher
 
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS 1LE M6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshinator99 View Post
VR package with the PD blower looks better to me, but I’m a PD blower fan so I might be biased. Lol. That said, getting the forged pistons put in at the same time is a good call.
I'm sure it's a great package. I'm just not sure about the price. I haven't given it up completely lol.
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:41 PM   #8
oldman


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPzypher View Post
That big bore Lingenfelter is expensive. I think i'll skip meth/ff for now and stay on pump 93. That's a cheap/easy add on once I have everything else in place. Not looking for crazy power right now anyways. I just want to do everything at once (head/cam/piston/rod) so I don't have to pay extra in labor every time I open it up.
I know so skip the porting of IM and TB, skip the meth, even skip the E85 sensor, skip the L4 HPFP and you should be there on price. It is so much easier just to pump and go, 100 percent dependable as OEM.

Heck I'd pick the big bore and injectors over LT and off-road pipes (sill would go with CA front cat deletes). You can always bolt in headers, but the forged engine/cam is a one shot deal.
__________________
2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:51 PM   #9
KPzypher
 
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS 1LE M6
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
I know so skip the porting of IM and TB, skip the meth, even skip the E85 sensor, skip the L4 HPFP and you should be there on price. It is so much easier just to pump and go, 100 percent dependable as OEM.

Heck I'd pick the big bore and injectors over LT and off-road pipes (sill would go with CA front cat deletes). You can always bolt in headers, but the forged engine/cam is a one shot deal.
Sounds like a plan. Is LT4 in-tank needed with the AUX lowside kit? Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:49 AM   #10
oldman


 
Drives: SS 6 speed of course
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Posts: 3,443
Not needed, I did it anyway for grins...
__________________
2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:51 AM   #11
oldman


 
Drives: SS 6 speed of course
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: austin
Posts: 3,443
ARP studs and imo I’d use a stock zl1 clutch and save like 1500 bucks, depending if you intend to drag it. Your build similar to mine.
__________________
2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:04 AM   #12
KPzypher
 
Drives: 2020 Camaro 2SS 1LE M6
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: NC
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman View Post
ARP studs and imo I’d use a stock zl1 clutch and save like 1500 bucks, depending if you intend to drag it. Your build similar to mine.
I'm getting it with upgraded ARP studs, cometic gasket, and Johnson lifters.

SO, what do you think?

D1X stage II, helical, race valve
PP ported heads
PP CAM w/ ARP studs, cometic gasket, and johnson lifters
2" LT headers w/ offroad pipes
drop-in piston/rods
Big bore lingenfelter pump
LT4 injectors, in-tank
AUX lowside kit
ZL1 clutch.

yeah unless i go meth&e85 and go big, I should be good with the ZL1 clutch. That should be right within my budget $20~$22K.

Either this or i'm gonna find a build around Magnuson 2650 if I can find a killer deal. Would love to go to VR for that, but just too darn expensive.

Where do you think this will put me power wise? I'm all about making power safely.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:30 AM   #13
oldman


 
Drives: SS 6 speed of course
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: austin
Posts: 3,443
Push rods, trunions, I went with Manley valves cause I’m paranoid. Power is pulley and rpm dependent. I’m tuned for a 4.0, 4.5 at 7000 rpm is 8psi. Had a 3.85 on which was stupid traction wise, calcs show 3.65 is about 90% on wheel speed at 7000 rpm near 1000 engine hp. 700 to 750 wheel hp is about the octane limit IMO on 11.5 cr. My first build was spec at 707 whp, this build with stock exhaust is about the same 707 wheel, 4.5 pulley on 93. I picked the cam for sound, to use the cam it would need 10.5 cr. Rough guess E85, lt, big injectors, dunno 800 wheel. U are limited both by cr and high side to 700 / 750 wheel, I call it all 707 wheel.

It has been my opinion that 800 and above engine HP builds should use heavy I beam rods and heavy forged pistons, rebalance crank or new crank with radius journals like the Lt4, main studs and 10.5 cr.
__________________
2016 to 2017 Stage 1, FBO, ported MSD, 103 TB, E85

2018 Stage 2, P1C, 4.0 pulley, Pray ported heads, Pray stage 1 blower cam, TxSpeed valvetrain, Katech ported 87mm TB, ported MSD, 1 and 7/8 headers

2019 stage 3: Forged short block 11.5 CR, huge duration sub .600 lift Cam Motion cam, Pray Ported Heads, 3.85 pulley D1X, stage II intercooler, 2 BOVs, DSX secondary low side, DSX E85 sensor, Lingenfelter big bore 2.0, CA-offroad pipe, 60609 Borla, Lingenfelter injectors, ZL1 driveshaft and half shafts, Katech ported TB,MSD intake, BTR valvetrain.

Last edited by oldman; 01-20-2020 at 03:48 PM.
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