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Old 03-16-2020, 08:36 PM   #1
Ajs16400
 
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LT1 Supercharged

Looking at supercharging my SS. Will the stock block and fuel system handle a Eforce 2650, Long Tubes, Rotofab intake and a moderate tune(not trying to squeeze everybit of power) on 93 octane.
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Old 03-16-2020, 08:44 PM   #2
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Don’t supercharge your car without upgrading the fuel system IMO. If you don’t, you’ll have to run very low boost and be capped in the 560 RWHP range or so.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:01 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Joshinator99 View Post
Don’t supercharge your car without upgrading the fuel system IMO. If you don’t, you’ll have to run very low boost and be capped in the 560 RWHP range or so.
Dosent this kit make 600 rwhp in a 50 state tune on stock fuel system? Why are we saying i need to cut it lower then this when it comes to HP?
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajs16400 View Post
Dosent this kit make 600 rwhp in a 50 state tune on stock fuel system? Why are we saying i need to cut it lower then this when it comes to HP?
This topic has been VERY well discussed on this board. A search will turn up a good amount of info. Pushing the stock LT1 fuel system to 600 RWHP is pushing your luck. A good tuner will watch:
1. Low pressure fuel is stable at commanded pressure
2. Rail pressure maintains commanded pressure
3. Injector PW is under 6.0 ms

It’s not enough to just look at AFR anymore.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshinator99 View Post
This topic has been VERY well discussed on this board. A search will turn up a good amount of info. Pushing the stock LT1 fuel system to 600 RWHP is pushing your luck. A good tuner will watch:
1. Low pressure fuel is stable at commanded pressure
2. Rail pressure maintains commanded pressure
3. Injector PW is under 6.0 ms

It’s not enough to just look at AFR anymore.
So you would suggest the fuel system upgrade over headers and intake?
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Old 03-16-2020, 10:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajs16400 View Post
So you would suggest the fuel system upgrade over headers and intake?
Stock LT1 fuel system will run out by 560-580hp on premium fuel with 10% ethanol. You might get to 590 if you can find un oxygenated, but it just doesn't have enough capacity on volume past that.

The LT1 is stout, but the pistons / rings will not take ANY detonation - and if you are max send all the time on fuel delivery, it is just a matter of WHEN, not IF you will get some knock because the high pressure system noses over.

For what its worth, the LT1 comes with a tri-y style manifold stock, if you do cat deletes you will get 8-10hp of the 12-15hp that long tubes get you. I made 700whp on the stock manifolds with 10lbs of boost and E85.

No sense going boosted IMO without at LT4 HPFP, LT4 Injectors and LT4 low side pump (if your car is a 1LE, it will already have the LT4 low side pump). You are limited to about 6lbs of boost without it.
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Old 03-16-2020, 11:47 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DorkMissile View Post
Stock LT1 fuel system will run out by 560-580hp on premium fuel with 10% ethanol. You might get to 590 if you can find un oxygenated, but it just doesn't have enough capacity on volume past that.

The LT1 is stout, but the pistons / rings will not take ANY detonation - and if you are max send all the time on fuel delivery, it is just a matter of WHEN, not IF you will get some knock because the high pressure system noses over.

For what its worth, the LT1 comes with a tri-y style manifold stock, if you do cat deletes you will get 8-10hp of the 12-15hp that long tubes get you. I made 700whp on the stock manifolds with 10lbs of boost and E85.

No sense going boosted IMO without at LT4 HPFP, LT4 Injectors and LT4 low side pump (if your car is a 1LE, it will already have the LT4 low side pump). You are limited to about 6lbs of boost without it.
should be a sticky
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Old 03-17-2020, 03:16 AM   #8
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Old 03-17-2020, 06:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajs16400 View Post
So you would suggest the fuel system upgrade over headers and intake?
Yes, fuel first, if you cannot do both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DorkMissile View Post
Stock LT1 fuel system will run out by 560-580hp on premium fuel with 10% ethanol. You might get to 590 if you can find un oxygenated, but it just doesn't have enough capacity on volume past that.

The LT1 is stout, but the pistons / rings will not take ANY detonation - and if you are max send all the time on fuel delivery, it is just a matter of WHEN, not IF you will get some knock because the high pressure system noses over.

For what its worth, the LT1 comes with a tri-y style manifold stock, if you do cat deletes you will get 8-10hp of the 12-15hp that long tubes get you. I made 700whp on the stock manifolds with 10lbs of boost and E85.

No sense going boosted IMO without at LT4 HPFP, LT4 Injectors and LT4 low side pump (if your car is a 1LE, it will already have the LT4 low side pump). You are limited to about 6lbs of boost without it.
Well said.
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Old 03-17-2020, 07:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajs16400 View Post
Looking at supercharging my SS. Will the stock block and fuel system handle a Eforce 2650, Long Tubes, Rotofab intake and a moderate tune(not trying to squeeze everybit of power) on 93 octane.
I think the stock fuel system would likely be struggling in this scenario, if not overtaxed.

As far as the block, these engines are known to come with tight or even really-tight ring gaps. This means that they are particularly sensitive to heat. Some people use methanol or water/methanol injection to cool things down. Another method is E85, but that requires even more fuel upgrades than for E10 pump gas (due to higher alcohol content). This situation is a crap shoot on what you got for gaps and how much heat you build up (ie short burst of WOT does not carry as large a risk as long applications of WOT does). Because of these variables on motor assembly and usage, nobody can accurately tell you that xxx hp is safe for the motor in a blanket statement. There is always a risk entailed when adding a supercharger to an engine, and the DI LT1 carries an extra risk with the possibility of having really-tight ring gaps.
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Old 03-17-2020, 07:57 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ajs16400 View Post
Dosent this kit make 600 rwhp in a 50 state tune on stock fuel system? Why are we saying i need to cut it lower then this when it comes to HP?
I think this question is an example of, don't get too tied up with internet hp numbers. I recall that Edelbrock with their E-Force 2300 had a baseline hp for the Camaro SS listed at 440hp, so using that perspective, the 600 number could mean that they gained a little over 36% with the blower. Now take the kit that I had (Paxton) where their baseline was 398 and supercharged was 550, for a gain of just over 38%. This means that the Edelbrock is not really pushing harder than some other kits, it's just that their dyno reads higher. I will acknowledge that there could be some differences in drive loss between the various supercharger kits, which means some extra fuel could be burned that is not getting out to the wheels in some cases. But how hard you are pushing it is a big part of the fuel demand equation.

Bottom line, differences in dynos is part of the reason that you will hear different ideas on what the limit of the fuel system is.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Dosent this kit make 600 rwhp in a 50 state tune on stock fuel system? Why are we saying i need to cut it lower then this when it comes to HP?
Marketing sells products. The bottom line is you are limited to about 7-8psi of boost on 93 octane with the stock fuel system(around sea level). The the stock pistons are limited to roughly 10-11psi ymmv. Most Supercharger kits out there will makes more power then the stock fuel system and pistons can support. 7-8psi of boost on a 2650 is really low. I believe all factory cars with 2650's produce 14-15psi. The 2650 would be ok on 9-10psi with a upgraded fuel system. Won't come on as strong as the 2300 till about 4k rpm then pull away.
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Old 03-17-2020, 11:33 AM   #13
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Since I do have some experience with this topic I'll chime in.

Most people have mentioned it already .......

Stock LT1/stock fuel system + boost + 93 oct = roughly 550-580 rwhp range (depending on the type of dyno numbers are just that NUMBERS not Holy Law LOL the delta gains are where its at).

This has been debated and pretty much verified.

If you have a good tuner and not motivated by greed (more boost more hp) The LT1 is Very boost friendly considering its a high comp NA engine not designed for boost but these are stout engines really.

If you want to stay with strictly 93 octane alone and nothing else ... then yeah that's kinda of where the fun ends with the stock LT1 until fuel upgrades are added (LT4 fuel system, JMS, or inline LP pump etc).

However ...... if you want to play around with higher octane fuels or additives and/or add some water/meth then the fun doesn't have to stop there! At your own risk which is always the case LOL.

Right now I am over the 600 rwhp (dynojet) threshold and still on 100% stock fuel system .... but I run higher octane fuels (actually only 93 + 32 oz Race Gas additive Not Even full Race fuel) and have an AEM water/meth kit. The fact that I am able to do this while only running 5.5 psi to me is impressive for such low boost very efficient and cool running setup.

Lower cly/intake temps and higher octane = more fun to be had while boosting a stock engine like the LT1.

I am going to pulley up to my previous boost level before the ARH headers (was 7.5 psi) and my tuner (very well respected GM and Mopar tuner) said he expects another 40rwhp gain on his dyno (he has a mustang dyno so lower numbers). All he really wants me to add for that level is a JMS pump booster and that should be enough for my car.

So currently I'm at ~540 rwhp on his mustang dyno (over 600 rwhp dynojet) at 5.5 psi so at 7.5 psi he is expecting around 570-580 rwhp (mustang dyno lower number) which would put me at around 650+ rwhp dynojet mark all on stock LT1/stock fuel system plus a JMS at that point.

He mentioned that stock 6th gen ZL1s usually only put down high 490s rwhp on his mustang dyno so he and myslef were really happy for such low boost and still safe.

However again on just plain 93 oct and nothing else this just isn't possible or safe at those hp levels with the stock LT1. I got bored of the 93 oct only power level quickly so playing with the higher octanes/ water meth was well worth it to me but I realize some just don't want to bother with the extras and that's fine. There are many more ways to make power than just upping the boost so that shouldn't be the only metric being looked at.

If I go past the 7.5 psi level then I will definitely be going full LT4 fuel setup+ ...... but hopefully at 7.5 psi I'll be mid 10s at low 130s mph so hopefully that will be enough for a bit ? who knows LOL. Over 10psi and its drop in pistons and cam FUN just a matter of time i'm sure !!!!

Happy to say my stock LT1 has been liking boost since 2017

-Jon
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Last edited by RageWorx; 03-17-2020 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-01-2020, 10:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RageWorx View Post
Since I do have some experience with this topic I'll chime in.

Most people have mentioned it already .......

Stock LT1/stock fuel system + boost + 93 oct = roughly 550-580 rwhp range (depending on the type of dyno numbers are just that NUMBERS not Holy Law LOL the delta gains are where its at).

This has been debated and pretty much verified.

If you have a good tuner and not motivated by greed (more boost more hp) The LT1 is Very boost friendly considering its a high comp NA engine not designed for boost but these are stout engines really.

If you want to stay with strictly 93 octane alone and nothing else ... then yeah that's kinda of where the fun ends with the stock LT1 until fuel upgrades are added (LT4 fuel system, JMS, or inline LP pump etc).

However ...... if you want to play around with higher octane fuels or additives and/or add some water/meth then the fun doesn't have to stop there! At your own risk which is always the case LOL.

Right now I am over the 600 rwhp (dynojet) threshold and still on 100% stock fuel system .... but I run higher octane fuels (actually only 93 + 32 oz Race Gas additive Not Even full Race fuel) and have an AEM water/meth kit. The fact that I am able to do this while only running 5.5 psi to me is impressive for such low boost very efficient and cool running setup.

Lower cly/intake temps and higher octane = more fun to be had while boosting a stock engine like the LT1.

I am going to pulley up to my previous boost level before the ARH headers (was 7.5 psi) and my tuner (very well respected GM and Mopar tuner) said he expects another 40rwhp gain on his dyno (he has a mustang dyno so lower numbers). All he really wants me to add for that level is a JMS pump booster and that should be enough for my car.

So currently I'm at ~540 rwhp on his mustang dyno (over 600 rwhp dynojet) at 5.5 psi so at 7.5 psi he is expecting around 570-580 rwhp (mustang dyno lower number) which would put me at around 650+ rwhp dynojet mark all on stock LT1/stock fuel system plus a JMS at that point.

He mentioned that stock 6th gen ZL1s usually only put down high 490s rwhp on his mustang dyno so he and myslef were really happy for such low boost and still safe.

However again on just plain 93 oct and nothing else this just isn't possible or safe at those hp levels with the stock LT1. I got bored of the 93 oct only power level quickly so playing with the higher octanes/ water meth was well worth it to me but I realize some just don't want to bother with the extras and that's fine. There are many more ways to make power than just upping the boost so that shouldn't be the only metric being looked at.

If I go past the 7.5 psi level then I will definitely be going full LT4 fuel setup+ ...... but hopefully at 7.5 psi I'll be mid 10s at low 130s mph so hopefully that will be enough for a bit ? who knows LOL. Over 10psi and its drop in pistons and cam FUN just a matter of time i'm sure !!!!

Happy to say my stock LT1 has been liking boost since 2017

-Jon
so it sounds like you have been running with your setup for a few years,
sounds like you know a few things would you be able to advise me on on my 2017 with longtube headers offroad x pipe and e85 ? I was thinking what do I need next to get in the 10 sec's
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