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Old 04-10-2017, 12:58 PM   #1
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DOT4 Brake fluid change for track use

Hi everyone,

For changing brake fluid to DOT4 for the track, is it detrimental to leave the current DOT3 fluid in the ABS lines?

I'm new to track days, and was wondering if any of the more experienced people on the forum have any knowledge on this. I know mixing the 3 and 4 will have an overall lower boiling point, but wasn't sure if there's enough DOT3 in the ABS lines to make it necessary to get all the old fluid out prior to the track. Seems like it's a pain to try to trigger ABS while bleeding, and I don't have easy access to the service tool to open the valves via the OBD port.

I'm still under 10k miles and no heavy brake use yet (I don't even think I've triggered ABS), so not too concerned about the quality of the current fluid in the system. I'm also planning to do another flush part way through the year or before I store it for the winter after I've gotten into ABS and mixed the fluid, but if any of you have bad experiences with boiling your fluid after mixing like this I'm curious to hear about it!
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Old 04-10-2017, 01:40 PM   #2
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I'm interested in this as well. Wondering if I need to go to the dealer to actuate the ABS or if it will be sufficient to bleed and fill with the DOT 4 at home.
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Old 04-10-2017, 05:52 PM   #3
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how do you bleed the brakes? Why do you need to trigger the ABS while bleeding? Is this because you don't leave enough brake fluid in the reservoir? If so, you might need a bench bleeding if you trap an air in the system.

I would definitely flush the whole fluid in the system and put some Motul RBF 600 . They're not that expensive and cheapest insurance on any track car IMHO
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Old 04-10-2017, 06:01 PM   #4
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Bleeding this car is very easy with a Motive Power Bleeder. Pick up 3 bottles of Motul RBF 600 (or your brand of choice), the power bleeder, and a catch can, throw the car up on some jackstands, and bleed away. Don't be scared to do this at home. There are some good tutorials on how to use the Motive bleeder on Youtube. Don't worry about ABS actuators or anything. Just bleed each caliper until the fluid changes to new fluid and you're good to go.
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Old 04-10-2017, 06:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glamcem View Post
how do you bleed the brakes? Why do you need to trigger the ABS while bleeding? Is this because you don't leave enough brake fluid in the reservoir? If so, you might need a bench bleeding if you trap an air in the system.

I would definitely flush the whole fluid in the system and put some Motul RBF 600 . They're not that expensive and cheapest insurance on any track car IMHO
The ABS valves trap fluid in them. If they are not actuated while being bled then the old fluid will remain in them until they are actuated at a later time.

The dealers use the service tool to run an ABS actuation cycle while bleeding.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:40 PM   #6
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Couple of things you can do...

1. Just let the fluid mix, there won't be enough within the ABS parts to cause a significant change in the boiling points

2. Flush the system, go out and do some hard stops to activate ABS, then come back and bleed. No guarantee's youll prevent a mix from happening.

3. Buy the tool needed to activate the system while performing the flush.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:52 PM   #7
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I have always been told in the past, as long as no air was allowed into the system you don't need to cycle the ABS module to bleed the brakes. They will still bleed like normal as long as the ABS module has fluid in the module/pump.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanblurr View Post
Couple of things you can do...

1. Just let the fluid mix, there won't be enough within the ABS parts to cause a significant change in the boiling points

2. Flush the system, go out and do some hard stops to activate ABS, then come back and bleed. No guarantee's youll prevent a mix from happening.

3. Buy the tool needed to activate the system while performing the flush.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJay74 View Post
I have always been told in the past, as long as no air was allowed into the system you don't need to cycle the ABS module to bleed the brakes. They will still bleed like normal as long as the ABS module has fluid in the module/pump.
Thanks for the feedback. It seems like that will have to be the case. Buying the tool is probably not an option so living with the slightly changed boiling point or bleeding twice will probably have to suffice for me.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:22 AM   #9
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The only reason for the ABs tool is that the air wont bleed thru the ABS module correctly, so the tool cycles the ABS solenoid open to allow you to bleed the air by the valve in the ABS module. If the module is full of fluid, then a conventional bleed will work just fine.

Also Dot 3 and 4 mix just fine.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric SS View Post
Bleeding this car is very easy with a Motive Power Bleeder. Pick up 3 bottles of Motul RBF 600 (or your brand of choice), the power bleeder, and a catch can, throw the car up on some jackstands, and bleed away. Don't be scared to do this at home. There are some good tutorials on how to use the Motive bleeder on Youtube. Don't worry about ABS actuators or anything. Just bleed each caliper until the fluid changes to new fluid and you're good to go.
+1 for the motive power bleeder, makes fluid swaps a breeze by yourself.

Buy a catch bottle with a magnet and bleed away.

https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Techn...bleeder+bottle
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:17 AM   #11
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If you have a good dealer you can trust with your car. Get a price for the fluid swap from your dealer. Take the dot 4 brake fluid to them. That's what I did and it wasn't very expensive. Get the brake ducts put on and a track alignment at the same time. Done...
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:33 AM   #12
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You are not likely to boil your factory fill anyway so please give no thought to the ABS flush. It is just not necessary. You are going to have to be one aggressive driver to compromise the stock DOT 3 fluid and you are much more likely to experience fade at the pad/rotor before the juice. No harm in filling with motul now but since you are new to track, I might actually suggest you wait a couple sessions before switching. Do the pads and fluid all at once when you are realistically requiring the upgrade. Stretch the consumables as far as you safely can.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJay74 View Post
I have always been told in the past, as long as no air was allowed into the system you don't need to cycle the ABS module to bleed the brakes. They will still bleed like normal as long as the ABS module has fluid in the module/pump.
The concern isn't about the possibility of air getting into the system, it's the possibility that over time (and ABS activity) that the original DOT3 fluid that was trapped in the ABS hydraulic control unit could migrate into the normally active brake lines and lower the boiling point of the fluid that is being used.

Since you should be bleeding your brakes prior to each event, you should be able to chase the DOT3 concentration down to a negligible level fairly quickly (in terms of the number of track days).


I've never had any trouble with that approach, and I have the cracked XP8 and XP10 pads and the heat-checked rotors to show that I do get my brakes HOT.


Norm
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
The concern isn't about the possibility of air getting into the system, it's the possibility that over time (and ABS activity) that the original DOT3 fluid that was trapped in the ABS hydraulic control unit could migrate into the normally active brake lines and lower the boiling point of the fluid that is being used.

Since you should be bleeding your brakes prior to each event, you should be able to chase the DOT3 concentration down to a negligible level fairly quickly (in terms of the number of track days).


I've never had any trouble with that approach, and I have the cracked XP8 and XP10 pads and the heat-checked rotors to show that I do get my brakes HOT.


Norm
Thanks for the response. That seems reasonable.
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