[Navigator]

2020 Mustang Hybrid Announced

Thoughts on what this means for the Camaro and how Chevy will react?

[soloknight6]

Lol. Whatever the mustang does the camaro follows. Since the beginning. The camaro just does it better

[hotlap]

Al Oppenheiser quote from June 2015 Hot Rod. I’m certain they are already in the works.

HRM: ...is this a performance bubble or will we see performance cars continue to improve over the next few years?

AO: Let's see. You've heard Mark Reuss say many times that Chevrolet has the most capable performance lineup we've ever had at Chevrolet. The things we do on Z/28 and ZL1 with magnetic ride and DSSV dampers. The Corvette has so much technology. We're going to incorporate much more of that to comply with future fuel economy. We're going to always be able to do performance, it's just how you define performance and the tools you have to do that. It may change to more technology-based down the road. Hey, look at it realistically, electric motors provide instant torque. That's pretty cool.

[GrimReaperSS]

As stated in article, LaFerrari, McLaren P1 etc use it... Lamborghini just stated it's coming for the successors to the Aventador and Huracan. Mercedes is doing it to their AMG models and Dodge is doing to all their half ton truck models. Wouldn't be a surprise if Camaro and Challenger make it happen too.

[DevilsReject97]

Oh look, a Chevy Volt.... in a Mustang badging...

You can keep this crap...no thanks..

[Navigator]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Oh look, a Chevy Volt.... in a Mustang badging...

You can keep this crap...no thanks..

Let’s be real....the days of internal combustion engines reigning supreme are going to come to an end soon. Only thing it can’t compete with are the sounds and the feel, but they will outperform in acceleration.

[Koldunic]

Can’t wait to see how much it will weight.

[Quinten_33]

I posted this in a different forum back in December, but nobody here seems to know about it. Credit goes to autoguide for the article.

Quick summary: GM patented a Twin-charged, high compression, hybrid electric powertrain for use in performance vehicles.



“After eighteen months in review by the United States Patent and Trademark Office, documents published on October 24, 2017 reveal GM has been granted a patent for an internal combustion engine with elevated compression ratio and multi-stage boosting.

The document describes a propulsion system made up of a high compression internal combustion engine which uses a low-flow supercharger in combination with a high-flow turbocharger, linked to “one or more electric motor/generators, none of which are shown”.

It gives us an interesting look at how GM engineers plan to continue producing obscene performance cars like the Corvette ZR1 and Camaro ZL1 1LE in a world of increasingly stringent emission regulations.

The illustrations depict a longitudinally mounted four-cylinder engine, but GM claims the thinking disclosed could be applied to engines with larger cylinder counts as well.

Typically, street legal engines using forced induction operate below a 10.5:1 compression ratio in order to mitigate the effects of pre-detonation. High compression and forced induction don’t usually mix because the extra air-fuel mixture crammed into the cylinder by the turbo or supercharger can ignite prematurely as a result of the elevated cylinder temperatures generated by higher compression ratios.

In order to make high-compression ratios and forced induction viable for an engine that must meet federal requirements, GM is proposing an extreme variation of the Atkinson-cycle using late intake valve closing to allow some of the air-fuel mixture to escape and eliminate the risk of pre-detonation.

Where GM’s patent differs from other Atkinson type applications is the length of time the intake valves would be kept dwelling at peak lift. In the document GM proposes two different methods for generating peak lift for an extended period of time–simple cam lobe profiling in combination with a variable-ratio rocker arm between the valve stem and the cam lobe; or an electro-hydraulic actuator which could replace the conventional camshaft.

Using the cam and rocker solution, GM would employ a “generally flat” portion of the cam lobe which would interact with the variable-ratio rocker arms to jam the intake valve open for a slightly extended period of engine rotation.

The rocker arms would include their own rotatable cam-shaped roller which could alter the duration of peak lift dwell from substantial to insignificant. In another variation, a more traditional cam lobe could interact with a cam follower to achieve the same effect.

Like conventional engines with variable cam and valve technology, the position of the cam and rollers could be changed by high pressure streams of oil shot by phasers. Using this method GM claims the intake valves could be kept at peak lift for an extra 20 degrees of cam rotation.

Should GM replace the cam shaft with a hydraulic or mechanical actuator the ECU would offer much greater control over the valvetrain. The document claims peak intake dwell could be achieved for 5-80 degrees of crankshaft rotation, which is just shy of a quarter rotation, or nearly one full cycle.

GM claims using either solution would yield compression ratios for forced induction engines between 11 and 16:1. To put that in perspective, methanol fueled drag racing engines typically run a 15:1 compression ratio, while Formula 1 cars operate at 17:1. It’s unclear if GM intends to use the system to offer variable compression ratios like other automakers have proposed.

The document also includes new thinking on twincharging and the application of boost pressure. GM says the supercharger could be driven by either the crankshaft or a dedicated electric motor, with the blower’s speed managed by a continuously variable transmission which would control the supercharger independent of engine RPM.

That means the CVT could keep the supercharger pegged at peak boost if necessary, or spooled for low RPM acceleration before the turbocharger clicks on above 3,000 RPM, when enough high-flow exhaust would be available to feed the impeller. The multi-boosted system could be capable of operating sequentially or in tandem based on what the vehicle’s ECU wants, which will, in turn, depend on if it’s been programmed for performance or economy.

It’s unclear how GM is planning to apply the thinking delineated in the patent, but considering the high-performance potential of the proposed system, this could be our first inkling of what’s going to motivate the hybridized mid-engine Corvette.”

[Quinten_33]

^that powertrain would have gobs of torque and power with just an inline-4. It would also be very responsive and very fuel efficient. It wouldn’t sound good, and it would weigh as much as an LT4, but it’s better than nothing. But the kicker is that they can apply this system to a V8.

[TJay74]

Ford had already said their goal was full electric hybrid by 2020 and eventually they like most of the other manufactures will close out the ICE engine and switch over to electric drivetrains.

The oil companies will cringe on that day, as each manufacture begins to kill off the ICE and replace platforms with electric engines.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Navigator

Let’s be real....the days of internal combustion engines reigning supreme are going to come to an end soon. Only thing it can’t compete with are the sounds and the feel, but they will outperform in acceleration.

Until you find a solid renewable energy resource that can power all the electricity you're going to need for that many cars....this is a pipe dream.

I'm completely aware that ICE's will be slowly going away, and that's a great thing. However, it's not going anywhere in the next 10-15 years... there's simply no reliable power grid to put it on.

And before you argue that, look at all the rolling blackouts and problem the SW area of the US has with just heat issues for the summer time...and you're going to try and add thousands of cars to that as well?

I'm all for the performance angle....but aside from that...no thanks..

[Cgocifer]

You can never replace the sound of a performance car. Fast? Sure. But fast without soul, sucks. Kids some day will be lusting over the woosh sounds of electric motors and the fake piped in engine sounds over the speakers. No thanks!!

[soloknight6]

Yeah... The future is electric, its still a while off, a decade at least, as the era of hybrids will need to end first. Electric sports cars are likely going to emulate Audi's developments. Yes the noise is "fake," and I agree it's a bit silly, but I think it's better than being totally silent. Plus, I can appreciate the work the composers do.



I imagine composers working on electric muscle cars will create angry, lower freequency, with the noise being pumped through speakers both inside and outside of the vehicle. I think some discharge noises for gear changes would be pretty cool too, like a cracking whip, or a quick burst from a stun gun.

I really hope multi speed gearboxes will trickle down into consumer EV's from developments in EV motorsport, mainly because I feel like gear selection is integral to driver involvement. And what's a sports car, or muscle car for that matter, that lacks driver involvement?

I understand that EV's only need a single speed for their rpm band, and that more gears = more weight, more cost, more potential for mechanical failure, and less range efficiency. But I hope that EV sports cars don't degenerate the purpose of a sports car: FUN.

[Navigator]

It will be interesting to see when and if Mustang or Camaro develop a hybrid or electric that is allowed to outperform the GT or SS. That day will eventually arrive, but I don't think that will sit too well with the V8 traditionalists.

It sounds like Ford is trying to intentionally hold back with this hybrid model, although I'm guessing it's more than possible they could develop a hybrid to out-perform the GT if they wanted to.