[ecko04]

Stating that you even know what they’re referencing when they say something about a “flash counter” is pretty indicative that foul play went on and they’ll dig to figure out what. It’s best to act completely aloof. The average layman doesn’t know anything about flashing firmware or an OBDII port.

We shouldn’t act as though we know more about the computers in GM’s car than them. There’s a chance something could go wrong with a 100% stock car. If you’re going to start flashing then in all likelihood, even if it’s not by much, the chance for failure may increase, and yes GM will use the catchall of the vehicle not being designed for whatever modification you did and hence voiding of the warranty.

Instead of trying to beat the system, it may be well worth the time and effort to find mod-friendly dealers and service centers, because they do exist.


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[Childs Play]

If you mod and tune your car you should assume the parts affected won’t be covered under warranty any longer.

People can claim the mag moss act till they’re blue in the face. It doesn’t cover aftermarket parts/tunes. If the dealership shows GM that the car is tuned, GM will deny your warranty claim in 99% of cases.

Don’t believe me? Ask the guy who got his warranty denied over a catch can on a KNOWN ISSUE WITH THE OIL PUMP when the dealership started and then grenaded the motor when they were told the oil pump wasn’t working. While a pretty out there example, stuff like that does happen. Is it bullshit? Yep. Is it easy to fight GM over something like that? Nope.

You got to pay to play. I personally believe you shouldn’t race/tune something you can’t afford to set on fire and push off a cliff. That mentality has served me well so far.

Just my .02

[qcman]

Originally Posted by Childs Play

If you mod and tune your car you should assume the parts affected won’t be covered under warranty any longer.

People can claim the mag moss act till they’re blue in the face. It doesn’t cover aftermarket parts/tunes. If the dealership shows GM that the car is tuned, GM will deny your warranty claim in 99% of cases.

Don’t believe me? Ask the guy who got his warranty denied over a catch can on a KNOWN ISSUE WITH THE OIL PUMP when the dealership started and then grenaded the motor when they were told the oil pump wasn’t working. While a pretty out there example, stuff like that does happen. Is it bullshit? Yep. Is it easy to fight GM over something like that? Nope.

You got to pay to play. I personally believe you shouldn’t race/tune something you can’t afford to set on fire and push off a cliff. That mentality has served me well so far.

Just my .02

I agree with you on every point!

[PinHead]

Just buy a 2nd ECM.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by PinHead

Just buy a 2nd ECM.

I believe the ECMs are vin matched to the car these days.

I wonder if the tuner companies can be held accountable if they state that the flash counter isn't activated and GM voids repair because it was? That would be an interesting case.

I have always believed that if warranty is important, then leave the car as it came from the factory, in every way. At least for the first couple of years. Give the factory gremlins time to show themselves before doing anything that would give GM a chance to get off the hook. I don't know exactly what the price tag of replacing an LT1 would be, but I'm guessing very close to if not $10K or more.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

I believe the ECMs are vin matched to the car these days.

I wonder if the tuner companies can be held accountable if they state that the flash counter isn't activated and GM voids repair because it was? That would be an interesting case.

I have always believed that if warranty is important, then leave the car as it came from the factory, in every way. At least for the first couple of years. Give the factory gremlins time to show themselves before doing anything that would give GM a chance to get off the hook. I don't know exactly what the price tag of replacing an LT1 would be, but I'm guessing very close to if not $10K or more.

He means stick the 2nd ECM in with the custom tune, and never bother the original. Stick the original ECM back in if the engine blows up.

It's a tried and true solution that's been around for a while. New ECM's are $90 at Amazon, not bad at all.

ACDelco 12674052 GM Original Equipment Engine Control Module Assembly
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[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by camaro5

He means stick the 2nd ECM in with the custom tune, and never bother the original. Stick the original ECM back in if the engine blows up.

It's a tried and true solution that's been around for a while. New ECM's are $175 at Amazon, not bad at all.

By vin matched, I didn't mean that the dealership would read a different number, but that the other systems in the car would not handshake with an ECM without the correct vin. Just something I read awhile back ago, maybe I misunderstood it.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

By vin matched, I didn't mean that the dealership would read a different number, but that the other systems in the car would not handshake with an ECM without the correct vin. Just something I read awhile back ago, maybe I misunderstood it.

You actually burn your vin into the 2nd (tuned) ECM.

--------

Just reflashing the factory tune after engine failure will NOT work.

When the tech sends screenshots to TAC, they compare stored values.

If any parameter is out of spec (max rpm, etc.) with their stock calibration values, bye bye warranty.

You're gonna need to reinstall the original ECM to provide acceptable stored engine operating parameters, since a failed engine won't run to create new acceptable to GM values.

So, it's not just about the tune, it's about the values stored by operating a tuned engine, even if the stock tune is back in place.


http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4248 - Identifying Aftermarket Calibrations before Warranty Repairs

GM has adopted a policy that prevents any unauthorized warranty transaction submissions to any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM calibration is confirmed, even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by camaro5

You actually burn your vin into the 2nd (tuned) ECM.

--------

Just reflashing the factory tune after engine failure will NOT work.

When the tech sends screenshots to TAC, they compare stored values.

If any parameter is out of spec (max rpm, etc.) with their stock calibration values, bye bye warranty.

You're gonna need to reinstall the original ECM to provide acceptable stored engine operating parameters, since a failed engine won't run to create new acceptable to GM values.

So, it's not just about the tune, it's about the values stored by operating a tuned engine, even if the stock tune is back in place.


http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4248 - Identifying Aftermarket Calibrations before Warranty Repairs

Wouldn't also raise a red flag if you put the factory ecm back in a failed motor and it didn't show related fault codes? I was under the impression that today's ecm's record a snap shot of operating conditions when the fault occurred. Putting in a different ecm wouldn't have that snap shot. I would think the folks at GM might raise an eyebrow at that?

[WhiteNight]

I spun two main bearings. There were no codes associated with that failure.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Wouldn't also raise a red flag if you put the factory ecm back in a failed motor and it didn't show related fault codes? I was under the impression that today's ecm's record a snap shot of operating conditions when the fault occurred. Putting in a different ecm wouldn't have that snap shot. I would think the folks at GM might raise an eyebrow at that?

Originally Posted by WhiteNight

I spun two main bearings. There were no codes associated with that failure.

It's not about codes, they're checking the operating values from the running engine. Look closely at the chart I posted above- The values column is what they check and compare.

I think the whole thing has a lot of unknowns like your point (MrChrisLS3) of where's the operating parameters (stored in nvram) that would signal an engine failure? Do they check that?

Is there a date and time stamp on the data that will tip them off to the ecm being recently re-installed after engine failure?

Or, do they just scan for operating parameters outside the acceptable range with the factory tune?

They're a lot fancier than anyone really understands.

Tuners are saying just reflash the factory tune - So Wrong!

Tune at your own risk, and be ready to fight GM in arbitration, make them prove it.

Oh ya, tuning is also illegal for anything except off-road use.

n

[WhiteNight]

The only indication was zero oil pressure and after shuting down the engine would not turn over. When I brought the car in I explained what happened. They tore into the motor and didnt find a problem untill they worked on it for a few days. I didnt get an impression that they pulled any kind of data from the ECU. Also this place doesnt see cars like this. Mostly trucks and econo cars. Maybe they are oblivious to the aftermarket. This place was old and thr service manager used a flip phone.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by WhiteNight

The only indication was zero oil pressure and after shuting down the engine would not turn over. When I brought the car in I explained what happened. They tore into the motor and didnt find a problem untill they worked on it for a few days. I didnt get an impression that they pulled any kind of data from the ECU. Also this place doesnt see cars like this. Mostly trucks and econo cars. Maybe they are oblivious to the aftermarket. This place was old and thr service manager used a flip phone.

--------------

You lucked out alright, they're required to send full data per GM procedure.

Lucky GM didn't kick the warranty claim back.

They could back-charge the dealer after a dealer audit, but it's probably not enforced very well.

GM requires retrieving the calibration information and performing the calibration verification procedure whenever a hard part failure may have occurred on internal engine components before disassembly, repair or replacement of an engine assembly under warranty.

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=4248

[Back To Pray]

Originally Posted by DTRMNED88

Does anyone know of anywhere u can have your SS tuned without losing warranty? Mine is hiding a SHITLOAD of power and I must have it. Damn, I'm paying for it....
A Chevrolet dealer maybe???

Fireball sells aftermarket packages that include an ECU tune and still honor a factory warranty.

I have a tune from them & a few months later I went in for service and got a new engine and transmision covered under warranty.

They might give you a tune along with some bolt-ons and say you're still covered but your local dealer won't say you're covered.