[DaveC113]

Whatever old folks!

The T4 Camaro is much faster than almost every single pre-2000 V8 Camaro that exists in the world. The V6 is now 355 hp.

Nobody NEEDS a 455 hp street car.

The Camaro chassis and looks is nice, why can't you have it with better fuel economy and "only" 300-355 hp? The need for a V8 is based in your ego, which isn't doing you any good.

After owning my SS 1LE I love it and will never get rid of it, but it's massive overkill for street driving. I could definitely see also having an RS and making the SLE into more of a track weapon.

And Randy Pobst owns an T4 1LE, I guess his reasoning is invalid, he may not have enough experience...

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Whatever old folks!

The T4 Camaro is much faster than almost every single pre-2000 V8 Camaro that exists in the world. The V6 is now 355 hp.

Nobody NEEDS a 455 hp street car.

The Camaro chassis and looks is nice, why can't you have it with better fuel economy and "only" 300-355 hp? The need for a V8 is based in your ego, which isn't doing you any good.

After owning my SS 1LE I love it and will never get rid of it, but it's massive overkill for street driving. I could definitely see also having an RS and making the SLE into more of a track weapon.

And Randy Pobst owns an T4 1LE, I guess his reasoning is invalid, he may not have enough experience...

Thank you.


All these people saying they would buy an import instead. What RWD import would you buy? Miata, BRZ? They are slower than the Turbo 4 Mustang/Camaro.



The 370Z? That thing is ancient. The interior is ass compared to Mustang/Camaro. The practicality is even worse, if you care about that.


I'd very much bet the WRX would lose to the Mustang/Camaro on a road course as well. It's close 0-60, but that's the WRX's party piece due to AWD. Funny thing is that they all put up very similar performance numbers despite the stock WRX using summer tires and the stock Mustang/Camaro on all seasons.



I'm very much convinced a lot of you really don't know or care about car performance (especially price per performance) outside of your V8 bubble.


EDIT: To answer the question, I would take the Camaro 4 over the Mustang 4. Yes the Mustang is faster in a straight line but I value the Camaro's handling much more than a few tenths to 60mph.

[HCI2000SS]

The V6 and/or T4 variants fall into a price range that's comparable to more regular type cars that don't look nearly as good, and usually are slower as well. So for someone who wants a brand new car for around 25k, who doesn't need the space and/or practicality of say a Honda Accord or something like that, but wants something that at least looks great, then it becomes a great option. I'd never buy an average boring sedan or coup for the same price as a Mustang or Camaro. Obviously everyone has different needs, budgets, scenarios, etc...so the T4 and V6 offer a great alternative for that

[foshjowler]

I obviously made my choice.

The days are gone that the base Camaro and Mustang are bad sports cars. For a new car under 30k ish, you'll be hard-pressed to find a better performer. With a full tank of gas, it's nearly 50/50 weight balance and just over 3300 lbs. With like $2k in engine mods, you'll easily be over 300 whp. That's more than enough for daily driving and is pretty quick in its own right. 0-60 in under 5 seconds and a quarter-mile in the low 13s. The existence of faster models doesn't make it slow or a bad performer. That's like saying the SS is slow because the ZL1 exists.

Randy Pobst buying a 2.0T Camaro is what put it on my radar. There's no getting around the size, of either the Mustang or Camaro, but I've found my car is more than capable of keeping up with any of the Mustangs or Camaros at autox. One of the drivers is a multiple-time national trophy winner in an SS, and I've gone back and forth with him a couple of times.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

All these people saying they would buy an import instead. What RWD import would you buy? Miata, BRZ? They are slower than the Turbo 4 Mustang/Camaro.

ND2 Miata(the newest ones with 181 BHP) is not much slower than a 2.0T Camaro. Do some math and you will see that the power-to-weight ratio of these two cars are getting fairly close. I drove one of my friend's ND2, and that thing has some go in the straight at lower speeds. Helps that Mazda didn't gear it for 0-60 but instead for good low-speed acceleration and fun.

The 2.0 BRZ is a bit lazy for sure, but maybe the 2.4 BRZ will change the game. The torque-dip is still there and that's a bit annoying, though.

[clyde]

If I were to buy one now and they were priced the same, I'd get a HPP/EBHP EcoBoost Mustang over the turbo Camaro because I already had a turbo Camaro. But they're not priced the same and as good as that Mustang may be, it's just not compelling enough at would cost to buy one.

I had my turbo Camaro for over two years. I put 40k on it, competed with it, drove it coast to coast and back, and absolutely loved every minute with it. I will always remember it as one of the best cars (if not the best) I ever owned (and there have been more than a few). I sold it to get a 2SS 1LE and after six months. I have zero regrets, but I know that after I eventually sell this one, I will not remember it as fondly as the turbo.

[kropscamaro16]

just not enough power for you or?

[clyde]

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

just not enough power for you or?

V8 noises were a bigger driver than power, honestly. Makes me smile in ways the turbo never would. The extra power is nice to have when I can use it, but it's so infrequent that it doesn't matter much.

In regular urban/suburban driving there's only so much opportunity to use more power than what the turbo offers and it's much less discreet in the V8 cars. If not for the 1LE package on the SS, I may have kept the turbo except for needing to scratch the V8 itch just to scratch it.

For the last 20 years, every car purchase started off with a V8 something (Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, E92 M3, etc) at the top of the list that always wound up getting displaced for one reason or another by something else. I'm pretty sure my next and all future daily drivers will be electric and that if I didn't buy a V8 daily driver, I probably never would...and project/toy cars just aren't the same thing.

[kropscamaro16]

haha yea i wanted a 5th gen camaro ss but couldnt afford it so i got a brand new cobalt ss turbo and had a blast with it learned to race in it and had it almost 8 years and then sold it for a 16 camaro ss

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

haha yea i wanted a 5th gen camaro ss but couldnt afford it so i got a brand new cobalt ss turbo and had a blast with it learned to race in it and had it almost 8 years and then sold it for a 16 camaro ss

There's a local in a Cobalt SS running STU class in autox, it's really fast!

[kropscamaro16]

sc or turbo? and yup they are super fast with the right mods

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by kropscamaro16

sc or turbo? and yup they are super fast with the right mods

Turbo, and yeah it's hard to believe how quick some old econoboxes can get with some mods!

[kropscamaro16]

yup mine was around 300hp 320tq and was no slouch on the track always had people coming up to after the first session


bolt ons tunes suspension stock brakes tires wheels etc...

[genxer]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Thank you.


All these people saying they would buy an import instead. What RWD import would you buy? Miata, BRZ? They are slower than the Turbo 4 Mustang/Camaro.



The 370Z? That thing is ancient. The interior is ass compared to Mustang/Camaro. The practicality is even worse, if you care about that.


I'd very much bet the WRX would lose to the Mustang/Camaro on a road course as well. It's close 0-60, but that's the WRX's party piece due to AWD. Funny thing is that they all put up very similar performance numbers despite the stock WRX using summer tires and the stock Mustang/Camaro on all seasons.



I'm very much convinced a lot of you really don't know or care about car performance (especially price per performance) outside of your V8 bubble.


EDIT: To answer the question, I would take the Camaro 4 over the Mustang 4. Yes the Mustang is faster in a straight line but I value the Camaro's handling much more than a few tenths to 60mph.

The Camaro is a bit better looking, and lighter than the Mustang. That would be my choice given the question. There should also be enough low mile Genesis Coupes around that compare closely.

The BRZ is lighter yet, with a similar interior layout to the Camaro. A too sports car driving position isn't helping either sell. It puts lie to the idea that a Camaro would need to be heavy to have more usable space.

WRX/STi compares, but indirectly, partly because the drivetrain layout kills its turn in. FWD comparisons are too much of a non-starter.

I agree with the V8 guys in spirit. Camaros without the V8, could be, but aren't American enough.