[BLACK21SS]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Jesus EFFING Christ, how many times is someone gonna make this same exact post and make the same exact statements? Camaro sales. More HP. Advertise. Ok, we get it. There doesn't need to be 3 of the same posts in every sub-forum on here every day man. Just go to one of the 20 million other posts with the same title and talk about it there. Camaro sales always suck. Nothing new. We obviously don't need 750 HP because along with that comes a whole bunch of other things like added costs, higher prices, on top of more government restrictions. GM has never advertised the Camaro well and they don't appear to be about to start doing it now. It doesn't matter because what they do sell obviously is enough to justify the continued production of the car. We don't need to talk about this all day every day and repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again. Give it a rest already.

Try decaf.

Every thread, on every forum, on every subject, has been repeated. It’s the nature of forums..

[90503]

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Jesus EFFING Christ, how many times is someone gonna make this same exact post and make the same exact statements? Camaro sales. More HP. Advertise. Ok, we get it. There doesn't need to be 3 of the same posts in every sub-forum on here every day man. Just go to one of the 20 million other posts with the same title and talk about it there. Camaro sales always suck. Nothing new. We obviously don't need 750 HP because along with that comes a whole bunch of other things like added costs, higher prices, on top of more government restrictions. GM has never advertised the Camaro well and they don't appear to be about to start doing it now. It doesn't matter because what they do sell obviously is enough to justify the continued production of the car. We don't need to talk about this all day every day and repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again. Give it a rest already.

Some serious rage right here..... Typical jersey boy lol.

[hawk02]

It isn’t cost, horsepower or lack of marketing that’s killed Camaro sales. It’s the totally useless back seat.

In the past, a family with children might have a considered a Camaro for a second car. Especially if dad wanted something a little sportier to drive. Not any more. Can’t easily get child seats in the back of a Camaro any more. The Mustang isn’t much better.

Say what you will about the Dodge Challenger chassis being a dinasour, it’s still remains big enough to comfortably fit four passengers. And for that reason, Challenger and Charger sales are starting to close in on the Mustang and significantly surpassed the Camaro.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by hawk02

It isn’t cost, horsepower or lack of marketing that’s killed Camaro sales. It’s the totally useless back seat.

In the past, a family with children might have a considered a Camaro for a second car. Especially if dad wanted something a little sportier to drive. Not any more. Can’t easily get child seats in the back of a Camaro any more. The Mustang isn’t much better.

Say what you will about the Dodge Challenger chassis being a dinasour, it’s still remains big enough to comfortably fit four passengers. And for that reason, Challenger and Charger sales are starting to close in on the Mustang and significantly surpassed the Camaro.

Got to disagree there, the lack of marketing is the number one reason. I agree the lack of a practical backseat is a minor factor but the Mustang suffers from the same issue. Comparing the Charger and Challenger against a single product line like the Camaro or Mustang is a bit unfair since you're group sales from two product lines. The Challenger and Charger are both doing well though independently, but its marketing that helps tremendously and the Hellcat is what started it all. So many people know what a Hellcat is due to excellent marketing, almost no one has has heard of a ZL1. The Hellcat is almost a brand in itself and has caused a huge trickle down in sales for their lower end model line too.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I don't think the Camaro needs 750 hp to compete with the Hellcat or GT500. It already does and holds its own at 650 hp on a track and in a straight line below 100 mph.

The reason Camaro doesn't sell well, as a guy who previously owned a 2018 Mustang GT PP1 A10 and upgraded to a '21 ZL1 this year, is the following (IMO):

1. Visibility/openness - the Mustang has more glass, while the Camaro has more sheetmetal, giving the Mustang a more open feel. Rear deck lid height - Mustang is lower, so you can see better. Mustang has smaller A pillars - all of these add up to the Camaro feeling closed in compared to the Mustang, thus, the average buyer doesn't get along with it as well as the Mustang. The first time my wife rode in the ZL1 she said "I feel like they forgot to put on the rest of the windshield." Think of her as an "average" consumer who doesn't care about track times, and you'll understand.

2. Usability - the Mustang has a larger trunk with a larger more useful trunk opening. Mustang has 1" shorter doors and higher seats, making ingress/egress easier than the Camaro. Mustang has better ergonomics (who's idea was it to put the door pockets in the Camaro behind the driver seat?). Mustang has a higher seating position, making it feel more "normal", rather than sports car like, thus appealing to a wider audience.

3. Styling - while I think they both look cool, the Mustang styling is more universal, while the Camaro's styling is a bit more polarizing. The fastback shape of the Mustang can't be denied in the styling dept., it looks great. Trim for trim I'd wager that most people prefer the look of the Mustang.

4. Name recognition/ historical significance. The Mustang is more famous and simply a bigger brand name than Camaro, no doubt about it. Ford has sold twice as many Mustangs than the Camaro in all of history. Ford has a more storied history with the Shelby relationship, etc.

While I love my ZL1, the Camaro doesn't appeal to as wide variety of consumer as the Mustang does.

[hawk02]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I don't think the Camaro needs 750 hp to compete with the Hellcat or GT500. It already does and holds its own at 650 hp on a track and in a straight line below 100 mph.

The reason Camaro doesn't sell well, as a guy who previously owned a 2018 Mustang GT PP1 A10 and upgraded to a '21 ZL1 this year, is the following (IMO):

1. Visibility/openness - the Mustang has more glass, while the Camaro has more sheetmetal, giving the Mustang a more open feel. Rear deck lid height - Mustang is lower, so you can see better. Mustang has smaller A pillars - all of these add up to the Camaro feeling closed in compared to the Mustang, thus, the average buyer doesn't get along with it as well as the Mustang. The first time my wife rode in the ZL1 she said "I feel like they forgot to put on the rest of the windshield." Think of her as an "average" consumer who doesn't care about track times, and you'll understand.

2. Usability - the Mustang has a larger trunk with a larger more useful trunk opening. Mustang has 1" shorter doors and higher seats, making ingress/egress easier than the Camaro. Mustang has better ergonomics (who's idea was it to put the door pockets in the Camaro behind the driver seat?). Mustang has a higher seating position, making it feel more "normal", rather than sports car like, thus appealing to a wider audience.

3. Styling - while I think they both look cool, the Mustang styling is more universal, while the Camaro's styling is a bit more polarizing. The fastback shape of the Mustang can't be denied in the styling dept., it looks great. Trim for trim I'd wager that most people prefer the look of the Mustang.

4. Name recognition/ historical significance. The Mustang is more famous and simply a bigger brand name than Camaro, no doubt about it. Ford has sold twice as many Mustangs than the Camaro in all of history. Ford has a more storied history with the Shelby relationship, etc.

While I love my ZL1, the Camaro doesn't appeal to as wide variety of consumer as the Mustang does.

I agree with you on 3 and 4. We could argue all day on 1 and 2.

I took posession of a C8 hard top convertible in February. With the top up, there’s little difference in openess and visibility between it and my ZL1. Visiblity on the Corvette sucks just as bad. They both make you feel like you’re driving in a bunker. Yet despite this, the C8 demand far exceeds what can be produced. I think historical significance and branding play big role in sales.

Of course the Camaro back seat still sucks. And what manager signed off that it was OK to crawl over the front seat belts to get in the back seat. Dumb!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by BLACK21SS

Try decaf.

Every thread, on every forum, on every subject, has been repeated. It’s the nature of forums..

There is literally the same topic going on right over on another sub-forum. And people just keep repeating it endlessly.

Originally Posted by Camaro1973

Some serious rage right here..... Typical jersey boy lol.

Let's just say I have a low tolerance these days. LOL!!

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

There is literally the same topic going on right over on another sub-forum. And people just keep repeating it endlessly.

Let's just say I have a low tolerance these days. LOL!!

I’m just kidding because I’m From jersey too

Just blame it on gov Murphy…

[R1ant04]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Got to disagree there, the lack of marketing is the number one reason. I agree the lack of a practical backseat is a minor factor but the Mustang suffers from the same issue. Comparing the Charger and Challenger against a single product line like the Camaro or Mustang is a bit unfair since you're group sales from two product lines. The Challenger and Charger are both doing well though independently, but its marketing that helps tremendously and the Hellcat is what started it all. So many people know what a Hellcat is due to excellent marketing, almost no one has has heard of a ZL1. The Hellcat is almost a brand in itself and has caused a huge trickle down in sales for their lower end model line too.

+1..totally agree. I’ve had a few people ask me where does the zL1 fit in, does it have more power than the SS?!?! Have also been asked on separate occasions why would I go backwards n power going from an ss to a zL1. Marketing/advertising/commercials would help a ton. In addition the camaro needs a mascot/avatar like the mustang and hellcat.

[serper3]

Who cares if it sells worse, there are no advertisements, people don't know how fast a zl1 is, or what it is. It doesn't matter, but in 30 years anyone that keeps a zl1 around will be happier that there weren't 10x as many sold. Would 100 more hp be nice? obviosly, few people are going to turn down more hp. but it is not because i am like, man i would love more zl1s on the road so i don't get lonely at c&c lol.

I personally appreciate that not every pony car you see is a camaro. already get enough of, oh look its someone with you car over there. and its a 5th gen base camaro... but who cares.

The way i see it is, its easier for people to fall into the marketing and end up with a charger/challenger, base all the way through to a hellcat. If you buy a camaro though, especially a zl1, but also any 1le, etc., you are more of an enthusiast and know more of what you want and why you are buying the car. maybe that is naive of me though oh well..

[TTown918]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I don't think the Camaro needs 750 hp to compete with the Hellcat or GT500. It already does and holds its own at 650 hp on a track and in a straight line below 100 mph.

The reason Camaro doesn't sell well, as a guy who previously owned a 2018 Mustang GT PP1 A10 and upgraded to a '21 ZL1 this year, is the following (IMO):

1. Visibility/openness - the Mustang has more glass, while the Camaro has more sheetmetal, giving the Mustang a more open feel. Rear deck lid height - Mustang is lower, so you can see better. Mustang has smaller A pillars - all of these add up to the Camaro feeling closed in compared to the Mustang, thus, the average buyer doesn't get along with it as well as the Mustang. The first time my wife rode in the ZL1 she said "I feel like they forgot to put on the rest of the windshield." Think of her as an "average" consumer who doesn't care about track times, and you'll understand.

2. Usability - the Mustang has a larger trunk with a larger more useful trunk opening. Mustang has 1" shorter doors and higher seats, making ingress/egress easier than the Camaro. Mustang has better ergonomics (who's idea was it to put the door pockets in the Camaro behind the driver seat?). Mustang has a higher seating position, making it feel more "normal", rather than sports car like, thus appealing to a wider audience.

3. Styling - while I think they both look cool, the Mustang styling is more universal, while the Camaro's styling is a bit more polarizing. The fastback shape of the Mustang can't be denied in the styling dept., it looks great. Trim for trim I'd wager that most people prefer the look of the Mustang.

4. Name recognition/ historical significance. The Mustang is more famous and simply a bigger brand name than Camaro, no doubt about it. Ford has sold twice as many Mustangs than the Camaro in all of history. Ford has a more storied history with the Shelby relationship, etc.

While I love my ZL1, the Camaro doesn't appeal to as wide variety of consumer as the Mustang does.

You nailed it. I don't know why some can't get these points through their thick skulls. Stop with the "it's a lack of advertising" BS. The buying public is well aware that the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger exist; especially those interested in sports cars.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by TTown918

You nailed it. I don't know why some can't get these points through their thick skulls. Stop with the "it's a lack of advertising" BS. The buying public is well aware that the Mustang, Camaro and Challenger exist; especially those interested in sports cars.

Its marketing. Ask most people if they've heard of a ZL1 or a Hellcat, don't even mention, Camaro, Challenger, or Charger. I bet most of those people have heard of a Hellcat, do you know why? Marketing. Almost no one knows what a ZL1 is. This has a huge impact on sales. As a previous owner of a Hellcat, I can't tell you how many people just ooh and ahh about it just because its a Hellcat. I've had a 60+ year old woman ask me if it was a Hellcat when I parked it and got out.

[Camaro1973]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Its marketing. Ask most people if they've heard of a ZL1 or a Hellcat, don't even mention, Camaro, Challenger, or Charger. I bet most of those people have heard of a Hellcat, do you know why? Marketing. Almost no one knows what a ZL1 is. This has a huge impact on sales. As a previous owner of a Hellcat, I can't tell you how many people just ooh and ahh about it just because its a Hellcat. I've had a 60+ year old woman ask me if it was a Hellcat when I parked it and got out.

Your right.. I even had a dodge guy that lives on my road with a dodge truck as me if i had a hemi in my dodge.... LOL.


Alot just dont have a clue. Marketing does help, and if its pushed, people buy.