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Old 05-29-2018, 11:50 PM   #2185
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Originally Posted by mjross View Post
What ever! Still ugly...
Did you Finish Mr. Fly?

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Old 05-29-2018, 11:56 PM   #2186
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With every new picture released, I get more excited - the new steel metallic color looks incredible, and even works really well with the black cross bar on the front bumper. I'm curious to see the shadow gray metallic too, assuming it will actually be a color option for the Camaro.



Looking forward to upgrading to a refresh SS in the future
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Old 05-30-2018, 01:48 AM   #2187
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If the Camaro is killing the Challenger and Mustang in sales then why the refresh to improve sales.
I r cornfused.
The Mustang is out selling the Challenger and Camaro with the Camaro coming in second place.

However on the talk of why do an MCE that is simple as you do one even if you are winning the sales race. MCE is part of the normal vehicle development cycle based on an average of a 5 year run. The Mustang was new in 2015 and went until 2017 until they did their MCE, for 2018 was their MCE and the Camaro has gone from 2016 to 2019 also 3 years. After that it should be two years on the MCE until the new car comes out, and the longer tic toc is carry the chassis over into the next car and repeat.

The Dodge Challenger is a bit of the odd ball out of these cars and it gets away with it largely because it doesn't compete head to head. It has gone 10 years on the same chassis although it has had some revisions, the route they went in was instead of normal development cycles they have made tweaks pretty much every year after a while. I remember early on for that car they weren't selling to the point where you could get a Challenger R/T 5.7 HEMI with $7,000 off the sticker.

I have argued that what Dodge really did right with their car to take it from something that needed discounts to something that can compete now sales wise with the Mustang and Challenger was simple. Instead of trying to make 3 trims to appeal and sell to everyone they have like 14 different trim levels and a greater level of specialization (for what the car is). There is even a Challenger that I wouldn't mind owning (392 T/A), well it would be close between that and a 1LE Camaro. Adding the 1LE package to the 2.0T Camaro is a move in the right direction for the Camaro but they need more of that. Make a Z/28 at around $55,000 and make something with the LT5 engine in it as well, maybe make a drag pack Camaro like what Dodge has with the Demon.

Picture an LT5 power Camaro stripped down and setup for drag racing but street legal. 755BHP and a great deal lighter then the Dodge Demon.
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:43 AM   #2188
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Everyone keep in mind, Chevrolet does not advertise the Corvette either.

The Camaro is marketed far more than you are willing to give GM credit for to the audience they intend. NASCAR is now one of those.

When you stop seeing ads on television you will know they don't work. Companies don't spend BILLIONS on TV ads alone for nothing. They get something for it. Which goes to the point of the Camaro. If GM believed they would sell more Camaros with ads they would have done it. You guys who (not an insult) don't do it for a living or have degrees in it seem to think you know more than the people at GM about doing TV ads. We don't. As I've mentioned in the past, Mrs. Number 3 was at one point in her career, the Marketing Manager for Corvette and there are reasons GM does not need to spend money on Corvette TV ads.

You may suggest GM take the tact of using the Camaro to boost Chevy.....oh wait they've done that already.

So other than making us feel good, there is very likely no business case for GM to create the commercial and buy TV time. Just as an example, if you spend $10,000,000 on producing a commercial and buying air time, and then for giggles assume GM makes $3,000 per Camaro (8% on ATP which would be VERY good) you would need to sell 3,333 more Camaros just to break even.

Take my current companies products. When was the last time you saw a TV advertisement for International Trucks? Or one of our competitors for that matter? TV ads do not reach our intended customer in a way that is meaningful to sales. It doesn't mean we don't advertise or market our products. We do a LOT of that. It just isn't in ways you see every day.

GM believes that they are marketing the car to it's intended customers without running TV ads.
I do it for a living. Audi, Porsche, Subaru, VW, Fisker, etc. from national to regional to dealer level. (This doesn't include NIKE, Coke, etc.).

The Vette could use some advertising. It's average buyer is aged 61. Not exactly a market you will be reselling to in 5 years. And if not to sell, but to reinforce. Advertising isn't always about direct response. You buy something and every time you run into an ad, it reinforces your purchase decision. Or it is aspirational. The teen will someday be a 20 something. Maybe will be able to pull together the $$$ needed to make the purchase, instead of buying a Lexus or Audi.

The Camaro is currently in last, with Mustang #1 & Challenger #2, in sales.

Here is an ad, sadly done by a Dubai ad agency, I cannot say where its placement was outside of Dubai:

http://c.brightcove.com/services/mob...ubId=377748811

The only downside with this spot, is you barely see the Camaro to identify it is a Camaro and not a Mustang. Other than that, the competitive nature of the concept is a good one.

The Camaro is priced roughly $2K more than the Mustang. It does need to advertise, and take a position that will get it on the consideration list of buyers.

GM, prior to their bankruptcy, had a great ad agency working on Cadillac and Hummer. It moved plenty of vehicles (agency was called Modernista!).

It is all about knowing your target. You need to speak directly to them.

Hummer lost the PR war. In fact they never even bothered to participate. My new Camaro has the same gas mileage, my 2010 Hummer H3 Alpha gets in the city. But I doubt anyone is going to give me dirty looks like they do when I am in my Hummer.

Here is a spot for the H2



To woo women to the H3, they did an excellent job.

Here is one of them:



Hummer, prior to being demonized, found every marketable position available, especially in light of its perception as an SUV for men only.



I was a Mustang guy (1967 Shelby GT 500, 1970 Notchback).

The Camaro, at it highest level, ZL1 is not a freaking transformer, it is American Muscle. GM knows this, that is why they wrap themselves in the color of the flag, but do not have the intestinal fortitude to say it.

And advertising buys are no longer about blanketing the nation, from pre-rolls to regional & local buys, you can target specifically the excitement about owning these vehicles.

The first time I heard about the Fifty was on Friday. I picked it up on Saturday.

I have been in the market for a Camaro for just about 5 years. It took me that long without advertising creating any urgency for me to finally pull the trigger.

Bad advertising is always bad.

Great advertising is always good.

Know your audience. Speak their language. Understand their concerns. And you will create a relationship with them every time.

The adage of building a better mousetrap is nonsense. If no one knows about it, it doesn't exist.

Sorry about the rant.

Last edited by CamaroSS50; 05-30-2018 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:49 AM   #2189
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Originally Posted by ChangerOfWays View Post
With every new picture released, I get more excited - the new steel metallic color looks incredible, and even works really well with the black cross bar on the front bumper. I'm curious to see the shadow gray metallic too, assuming it will actually be a color option for the Camaro.



Looking forward to upgrading to a refresh SS in the future
I go the other way. The more I see the more I just shake my head and say what were they thinking. Black is the only color that looks halfway decent because it hides those awful cheek pieces. I do like the hood ,and while Im not crazy about the taillights they wouldn't be a deal breaker if the front didnt look so bad. Im glad you like them though. I hope for the sake of the Camaro that your opinion is poplar enough.
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Old 05-30-2018, 06:39 AM   #2190
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Everyone keep in mind, Chevrolet does not advertise the Corvette either.

The Camaro is marketed far more than you are willing to give GM credit for to the audience they intend. NASCAR is now one of those.

When you stop seeing ads on television you will know they don't work. Companies don't spend BILLIONS on TV ads alone for nothing. They get something for it. Which goes to the point of the Camaro. If GM believed they would sell more Camaros with ads they would have done it. You guys who (not an insult) don't do it for a living or have degrees in it seem to think you know more than the people at GM about doing TV ads. We don't. As I've mentioned in the past, Mrs. Number 3 was at one point in her career, the Marketing Manager for Corvette and there are reasons GM does not need to spend money on Corvette TV ads.

You may suggest GM take the tact of using the Camaro to boost Chevy.....oh wait they've done that already.

So other than making us feel good, there is very likely no business case for GM to create the commercial and buy TV time. Just as an example, if you spend $10,000,000 on producing a commercial and buying air time, and then for giggles assume GM makes $3,000 per Camaro (8% on ATP which would be VERY good) you would need to sell 3,333 more Camaros just to break even.

Take my current companies products. When was the last time you saw a TV advertisement for International Trucks? Or one of our competitors for that matter? TV ads do not reach our intended customer in a way that is meaningful to sales. It doesn't mean we don't advertise or market our products. We do a LOT of that. It just isn't in ways you see every day.

GM believes that they are marketing the car to it's intended customers without running TV ads.
Then how do you explain Dodge advertising their sports cars like no tomorrow? Smoking tires, power slides, drag races in the Challengers and Chargers while evoking the Dodge brother's rebellious spirit or Vin Diesel's Fast and Furious movies. Americans are inherently rebellious - we invented rock n roll. From my perspective, if I was not a dedicated Camaro/GM guy and I was undecided about what performance car I wanted, those commercials would definitely make me run to a Dodge dealer and seriously consider a Challenger or Charger.

If any GM division should be using Led Zeppelin's Rock n Roll, it should be Chevy, not Cadillac. Run that with a Camaro SS flying around a race track, doing some slick power slides into the corners, and touting the 6.2 V8 and Brembo brakes. THAT'S what I call "Finding New Roads"! That would sell 3300 more Camaros every year. Heck I remember as a teenager I LOVED every time the 1993 Camaro Z28 commercial where the two kids were naming the cars that passed by their house based on engine note and the one kid goes into full on "a 285 horsepower, fuel injected, 5.7 liter, 6 speed manual, Chevy Camaro Z-TWENTY EIGHT!"

Chevy is content advertising "real people" marveling at bluetooth, Apple Carplay, and JD Powers awards for a Cruze and Malibu. I understand most of America aren't car people and are pretty dumb when it comes to cars, but really, Chevy's current advertising is pretty lame. Even you have to admit that.

Last edited by fastball; 05-30-2018 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:23 AM   #2191
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Then how do you explain Dodge advertising their sports cars like no tomorrow? Smoking tires, power slides, drag races in the Challengers and Chargers while evoking the Dodge brother's rebellious spirit or Vin Diesel's Fast and Furious movies. Americans are inherently rebellious - we invented rock n roll. From my perspective, if I was not a dedicated Camaro/GM guy and I was undecided about what performance car I wanted, those commercials would definitely make me run to a Dodge dealer and seriously consider a Challenger or Charger.

If any GM division should be using Led Zeppelin's Rock n Roll, it should be Chevy, not Cadillac. Run that with a Camaro SS flying around a race track, doing some slick power slides into the corners, and touting the 6.2 V8 and Brembo brakes. THAT'S what I call "Finding New Roads"! That would sell 3300 more Camaros every year. Heck I remember as a teenager I LOVED every time the 1993 Camaro Z28 commercial where the two kids were naming the cars that passed by their house based on engine note and the one kid goes into full on "a 285 horsepower, fuel injected, 5.7 liter, 6 speed manual, Chevy Camaro Z-TWENTY EIGHT!"

Chevy is content advertising "real people" marveling at bluetooth, Apple Carplay, and JD Powers awards for a Cruze and Malibu. I understand most of America aren't car people and are pretty dumb when it comes to cars, but really, Chevy's current advertising is pretty lame. Even you have to admit that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dodge knows how to advertise and garner interest, they also know how to build a car that appeals to both young and old. This is the reason the now 10+yro design is still doing so well with the Challenger and Charger small touted updates to keep interest.

Chevy chooses to spend all of their advertisement budget on ridiculous truck television commercials touting JD power rankings. Camaro gets MT and C&D magazine advertisement, again boring.

It hasn't worked as sales continue to be dismal. If all the talk in this posting on the refresh is correct sales may even get worse.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:32 AM   #2192
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I don't remember the last auto commercial that convinced me to even look or buy a car. Here is one of many threads about Chevy advertising BS since that is what this thread is turning into LOL. https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...ight=advertise
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:38 AM   #2193
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Advertising or not, this refresh is still ugly AF
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:42 AM   #2194
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I don't remember the last auto commercial that convinced me to even look or buy a car. Here is one of many threads about Chevy advertising BS since that is what this thread is turning into LOL. https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showt...ight=advertise
In a post in that thread they had a commercial from 1984 with a Camaro starting out at $7,995, that's like $18,500 in todays money. At that price sales would skyrocket.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:45 AM   #2195
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Advertising or not, this refresh is still ugly AF

Well its easy then. Instead of complaining about the refresh, just get or look at something else that will make you happy that's not ugly AF. LOL. Its just that simple....
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:14 AM   #2196
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In a post in that thread they had a commercial from 1984 with a Camaro starting out at $7,995, that's like $18,500 in todays money. At that price sales would skyrocket.
Exactly!
I suggested that the Camaro needed to be a price leader in at least one segment maybe offer a economy model to get some buyers in the door. Of course I was flamed and told the opposite and Camaro needs more expensive models that’s what they’re lacking.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:27 AM   #2197
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Did you Finish Mr. Fly?

Even uglier now!
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:30 AM   #2198
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Advertising or not, this refresh is still ugly AF
You got that right. And getting uglier!
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