[Norm Peterson]

What I'm picking up is that the EB4 is being positioned 'upmarket' from the sixxer trim and will be promoted in various ways to get more people to think in terms of smaller-displacement forced induction.


Norm

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

What I'm picking up is that the EB4 is being positioned 'upmarket' from the sixxer trim and will be promoted in various ways to get more people to think in terms of smaller-displacement forced induction.


Norm

Yeah. I'm interested to see how it will perform and will compare to current and future Camaros. They could have a big hit on their hands. I hope it at least pushes GM to offer more performance options for the lesser engined Camaros.

[Norm Peterson]

I'm going to guess it'll run about even with the V6 Camaro, maybe a little stronger.

At least from zero to about 50 my wife's turbo 2.5L Legacy at 265 HP (MT) runs almost as strong as my 4.6L Mustang (MT, supposedly 315-ish with a mild tune), which is about on par HP-wise with the 3.6L Camaro V6. I fully expect an EB4 2015 Mustang to pull away from either of those two cars of mine.


Norm

[Truck Norris]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Yeah. I'm interested to see how it will perform and will compare to current and future Camaros. They could have a big hit on their hands. I hope it at least pushes GM to offer more performance options for the lesser engined Camaros.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm going to guess it'll run about even with the V6 Camaro, maybe a little stronger.

At least from zero to about 50 my wife's turbo 2.5L Legacy at 265 HP (MT) runs almost as strong as my 4.6L Mustang (MT, supposedly 315-ish with a mild tune), which is about on par HP-wise with the 3.6L Camaro V6. I fully expect an EB4 2015 Mustang to pull away from either of those two cars of mine.


Norm

The EB4 is not the entry engine and will be quicker and faster then the V6 Mustang which has always been quicker and faster then the V6 Camaro.

Your wife's Legacy GT traps the 1/4 mile in 104mph the hands of the journalists at Motorweek which is a faster trap speed then any Mustang or Camaro V6 ever tested.

[Infidel67]

Originally Posted by White_SS/RS

Looks like a Audi/mustang mix!

+1

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm going to guess it'll run about even with the V6 Camaro, maybe a little stronger.

At least from zero to about 50 my wife's turbo 2.5L Legacy at 265 HP (MT) runs almost as strong as my 4.6L Mustang (MT, supposedly 315-ish with a mild tune), which is about on par HP-wise with the 3.6L Camaro V6. I fully expect an EB4 2015 Mustang to pull away from either of those two cars of mine.


Norm

It will most certainly be faster than either of the current V6 pony cars....bet your last dollar on it.

I'm betting the final numbers will be 310HP and 310 - 320 TQ. That TQ comes on early and because of that the EB4 will be faster out of the hole than the V6 cars. The only place the V6s might be a tad quicker is on the far end of the 1/4 mile course, but even then they EB4 will be long gone. I'm going to say it will be capable of a 13.5 or better stock.

With a tune, those engines will thrown down a good 320 -330 HP or more and likely 360 - 390 TQ and I'll bet will run with a stock L99 down the 1/4 mile.

Only chance in my opinion for GM to not offer a Turbo 4 and be competitive in performance and gas mileage is to offer a large displacement V6 (3.7 - 3.9) for maximum HP and TQ with cylinder deactivation for efficiency.

With a modern 3.8 with those specs, cam phasing, and direct injection I'm betting they could get a good 340 - 350 HP and 290 - 300 TQ....but even still the EB4 will have an advantage on low end torque, but the GM V6 would be faster on the top end. If the EB4 is tuned, its game over.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by Truck Norris

The EB4 is not the entry engine and will be quicker and faster then the V6 Mustang which has always been quicker and faster then the V6 Camaro.

Your wife's Legacy GT traps the 1/4 mile in 104mph the hands of the journalists at Motorweek which is a faster trap speed then any Mustang or Camaro V6 ever tested.

One problem with this statement. The fourth gen V6 Camaros held a performance edge for a long time. Early on the 3800 HP was competitive even with the 4.6L Mustangs.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

One problem with this statement. The fourth gen V6 Camaros held a performance edge for a long time. Early on the 3800 HP was competitive even with the 4.6L Mustangs.

That's because the 2-valve iron-block 4.6's that competed in the SN95 and New Edge Mustangs against the 4th gen F-bodies were really weak to begin with (210-ish HP?) and still only made 260 or so after Ford beefed them up with the PI (for Performance Improvement) heads. A four-valve version put out 300 or so in normally aspirated trim. I'm being intentionally vague about the HP numbers because I'm too lazy to look them up and I never could work up much enthusiasm for those years of Mustangs.

The 3-valve all-aluminum engines made 300 right out of the gate in 2005, which put them on par with the non-supercharged iron-block 4-valve versions that also appeared in the SN95/New Edge. The aluminum 4.6 was also offered at 315 HP in the 2007 Shelby GT (not the GT500), definitely in the "regular" GT by 2010, and also with the more or less in-house Ford Racing aftermarket tune (which I'm running). The aluminum 4.6 might as well be a completely different engine from the iron-block versions that just happens to share bore, stroke, and most other dimensions with the older 4.6.


Norm

[S3XPanther]

The car has a lot of potential, regardless of how great it already looks.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by S3XPanther

The car has a lot of potential, regardless of how great it already looks.

Or you mean...how "just alright" it looks. lol

Sorry...could't resist.

[RLHMARINES]

I know its' probably already has been said but I think it has a lot of Camaro design cues in it, especially the top of the rear fender flares and how the base of the rear roof tapers away from the side. The car overall will more than appeal to the faithful but in my opinion it looks too much like the out going model with a lot of Camaro inspired touches with a fusion front end and not more like their concept car. I hope it does well but not better than our Camaro.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

I know its' probably already has been said but I think it has a lot of Camaro design cues in it, especially the top of the rear fender flares and how the base of the rear roof tapers away from the side. The car overall will more than appeal to the faithful but in my opinion it looks too much like the out going model with a lot of Camaro inspired touches with a fusion front end and not more like their concept car. I hope it does well but not better than our Camaro.

it's that tried and true statement..."if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"

[S3XPanther]

Originally Posted by NVmyZL1

Unless you feel the Gen5 Camaro was inspired by an early-model Mustang, then I strongly disagree with where the influences on the 2015 Mustang come from.
Attachment 585861

Yup, was going to post that. However, people seem to have their minds made up around here.

And as for the "fusion" front end, I can definitely see where people are coming from, but we must remember that a car company using it's current design language on different models is nothing new. For example, the '14 Camaro refresh utilizes a much smaller front grille with chrome strip, a design cue of GM's current language. So for the '15 Mustang to bare a passing resemblance to the Fusion is of no surprise. To say this, technically, is not accurate however, as I'll explain below.

Now, the S197 Mustang has been the only generation of Mustang thus far that had it's own unique styling; a completely standalone language, completely different from the rest of Ford's lineup. In the past, Mustang has shared cues with several different cars, and so this tradition is returning. Again, every car manufacturer does this. In the early '90's for example, the Mustang bared a passing resemblance to the Ford Escort of the time. See below.


So now that we've got that out of the way, let's examine the outgoing Fusion and S550 Mustang.

The Fusion, and in fact almost all of Ford's current cars (excluding SUV's, trucks, and the outgoing Mustang, while INCLUDING the '15 Mustang) are based on the EVOS design exercise below. What is EVOS? EVOS was a concept car, but more importantly an indicator of Ford's new design language. See last pic below.


Where did the idea for EVOS come from? Well, here's the kicker: the EVOS takes many of it's cues from several generations of Mustang (Most notably the late '60's/early '70's Mustangs), however, it puts it's own modern spin on them. It was supposed to be a rear-engine modernized Mustang with cues from its older siblings. For a while, it was believed the EVOS WAS the next Mustang, and in fact, we now know, the S550 is most definitely its offspring. HOWEVER, so are several other cars in Ford's lineup. So, it's more correct to say that the outgoing Fusion bares a passing resemblance to the Mustang, since the Fusion is based on the EVOS, and the EVOS is based on Mustangs past, rather than the other way around. just sayin..... only the uneducated in Mustang history will call the S550 a 2-door Fusion or Camaro wannabe. And well, we don't care about those people.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by S3XPanther

Yup, was going to post that. However, people seem to have their minds made up around here.

And as for the "fusion" front end, I can definitely see where people are coming from, but we must remember that a car company using it's current design language on different models is nothing new. For example, the '14 Camaro refresh utilizes a much smaller front grille with chrome strip, a design cue of GM's current language. So for the '15 Mustang to bare a passing resemblance to the Fusion is of no surprise. To say this, technically, is not accurate however, as I'll explain below.

Now, the S197 Mustang has been the only generation of Mustang thus far that had it's own unique styling; a completely standalone language, completely different from the rest of Ford's lineup. In the past, Mustang has shared cues with several different cars, and so this tradition is returning. Again, every car manufacturer does this. In the early '90's for example, the Mustang bared a passing resemblance to the Ford Escort of the time. See below.


So now that we've got that out of the way, let's examine the outgoing Fusion and S550 Mustang.

The Fusion, and in fact almost all of Ford's current cars (excluding SUV's, trucks, and the outgoing Mustang, while INCLUDING the '15 Mustang) are based on the EVOS design exercise below. What is EVOS? EVOS was a concept car, but more importantly an indicator of Ford's new design language. See last pic below.


Where did the idea for EVOS come from? Well, here's the kicker: the EVOS takes many of it's cues from several generations of Mustang (Most notably the late '60's/early '70's Mustangs), however, it puts it's own modern spin on them. It was supposed to be a rear-engine modernized Mustang with cues from its older siblings. For a while, it was believed the EVOS WAS the next Mustang, and in fact, we now know, the S550 is most definitely its offspring. HOWEVER, so are several other cars in Ford's lineup. So, it's more correct to say that the outgoing Fusion bares a passing resemblance to the Mustang, since the Fusion is based on the EVOS, and the EVOS is based on Mustangs past, rather than the other way around. just sayin..... only the uneducated in Mustang history will call the S550 a 2-door Fusion or Camaro wannabe. And well, we don't care about those people.

I've mentioned this before, however it's info that tends to not "stick" in these parts.