[90503]

Originally Posted by Frankie18SS

Question about a possible electric Camaro. My apologies if this was already covered and I didn't see it.

I could've ordered an automatic in my car to be faster but instead, I got a stick just because they are more fun to drive IMO. So, along those same lines, would it ever be a possibility that they would sell a Camaro that is normally AWD for the launches but could be switched into RWD only just to have a more spirited driving experience? I can't see this being anything else but simple programming and it seems like it would go a long way to satisfy the "EVs have no soul" crowd.

Thoughts?

A manual trans, rear wheel drive, driving-made-spirited-car-with-soul ICE Camaro already exists. But they will likely throw it all away for an unneeded re-invention of the wheel.

A virtual reality headset and lap-top video game could also be an option as a replacement.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by 90503

A manual trans, rear wheel drive, driving-made-spirited-car-with-soul ICE Camaro already exists. But they will likely throw it all away for an unneeded re-invention of the wheel.

A virtual reality headset and lap-top video game could also be an option as a replacement.

Our opinion matters not on this website anymore.

If you want the Camaro to remain ICE V8 with a manual transmission there’s people here who’d burn you at the steak as a heretic.

[Devstrike]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Thank you Ford. Ole’ Lee Iacocca is smiling right now.

If push comes to shove I guess it’s a Mustang in the future for me if GM kills the L-series V8s.

You have a very high chance that Dodge will follow suit like Ford with their Challenger. For the past Decade those two have been battling it out in Diesel Truck Torque wars, HP wars, Off Road SUV and with the Raptor and TRX. No Way will Dodge let Ford be the only one with a V8 based on their track record battle with Ford.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by 90503

A virtual reality headset and lap-top video game could also be an option as a replacement.

You can't simulate that with just a laptop/console and a controller, period.

A good simulator setup can cost close to an actual car. It's cheaper to run than a real car on a track with less consumables, but it's really meant more as a training device than a straight-up replacement.

[Frankie18SS]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

I agree. I am hopeful GM will enable a lot of customization if they offer a performance EV. In the Tesla Model 3 Performance you can set the front and rear bias, stability control and level of regenerative braking so I would hope that GM would be able to the same and more. One thing you can't do in the Tesla (without a 3rd party tool) is fully disable traction control. It is kind of crazy in a EV with instant torque so it is probably a good idea of Tesla.

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Thanks!! I never realized Tesla's level of configuration. That gives me hope.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Our opinion matters not on this website anymore.

If you want the Camaro to remain ICE V8 with a manual transmission there’s people here who’d burn you at the steak as a heretic.

That is not my position. I keep throwing around all the Tesla talk here but that does not mean I hope for an ICE based Camaro to disappear. My perspective on this is if GM does kill off the ICE based Camaro for an EV variant I want it to be as entertaining as possible to drive. If GM offers customizable track modes, true LSD, ability to set awd or rwd on the fly, carry over tech like mag ride suspension, maybe a 2 speed transmission instead of a single speed found in most EVs. I know the instant torque and shove back in the seat will put a smile on everyone’s face and if you combine that with exceptional handling and a playful chassis it should be a fun car to drive and less expensive to own and operate. If we assume it will look great as well then will that be enough to win over folks that prefer the true V8 exhaust note and manual transmission?

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Frankie18SS

Thanks!! I never realized Tesla's level of configuration. That gives me hope.

I was surprised as well. This is the advantage of software, it allows for a greater level of customization vs. the predefined modes that GM provides. Another game changer is that the Track Mode be updated via software update. I have experienced this already when Tesla released Track Mode V2. Randy Pobst worked with Tesla and there is a video on YouTube where you saw him running hot laps and the engineer in the passenger seat would just keep tweaking the software based on wanted Randy wanted. Randy would say something like the car is pushing too much in this corner, the engineer would tweak a couple settings in the tune and they would run another lap and Randy would be like wow it is better. Then Tesla clicks save and sends the update out to all the Model 3 Performance cars with Track Mode. You wake up the next morning and your car has a new track mode. The same thing happened with performance updates. When I bought the car it did 0-60mph in 3.5 sec and 11.9 in 1/4 mile. Tesla then sends two 5% power increases over a period of 9 months or so and now the cars goes 0-60mph in 3.0 sec and the 1/4mi in 11.4 sec. Some question whether there is more still performance left on the table with the current battery, inverters and and motors.

I can honestly say I really have no more desire for more low end performance than this. It is really ridiculous how fast it is down low. At this point I would rather see a 2 speed transmission so you get the same pull at higher speeds, less weight and better handling.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

If we assume it will look great as well then will that be enough to win over folks that prefer the true V8 exhaust note and manual transmission?

Nope. Not at all.

I'll say it till I die: muscle cars are not muscle cars without the rumble and lumpy idle of a V8 engine.

[redcoats1976]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Nope. Not at all.

I'll say it till I die: muscle cars are not muscle cars without the rumble and lumpy idle of a V8 engine.

the GNX with its turbo 6 sure ran pretty good back in the day though.i know it doesnt make the right noises but a twin turbo LGX from the factory would probably be pretty quick as well.had the big V8s,headers,duals combo for 25 years and im sure i called my share of cops with the noise.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

the GNX with its turbo 6 sure ran pretty good back in the day though.i know it doesnt make the right noises but a twin turbo LGX from the factory would probably be pretty quick as well.had the big V8s,headers,duals combo for 25 years and im sure i called my share of cops with the noise.

The GNX was a unique bird. It was as fast (or in some tests faster) than the fastest Corvette at the time. I just don't know how well the turbo would hold up to long term, high mileage driving and no one really knows if you think about it (if there's a single GNX on the planet today with over 30,000 original miles - heck 10,000 miles - on it I'd be shocked). Many still have only the factory test miles on the odometer and that is it.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

One thing you can't do in the Tesla (without a 3rd party tool) is fully disable traction control. It is kind of crazy in a EV with instant torque so it is probably a good idea of Tesla.

That only makes good sense. The physics of too much torque coming in too quickly against nowhere near enough remaining tire grip (and driver skill levels that are at best "uncertain") really don't care where all that torque is coming from . . .


I think it's also safe to assume that members either here or over on M6G who also own a Tesla are not representative of the average Tesla customer. Even further removed from those average Tesla owners are those Cam6/M6G members who engage in any of the various track day activities where you get extensive experience with how cars behave out there close to the car's ultimate limits.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

In the Tesla Model 3 Performance you can set the front and rear bias, stability control and level of regenerative braking so I would hope that GM would be able to the same and more.

Originally Posted by raptor5244

My perspective on this is if GM does kill off the ICE based Camaro for an EV variant I want it to be as entertaining as possible to drive. If GM offers customizable track modes, true LSD, ability to set awd or rwd on the fly, carry over tech like mag ride suspension, maybe a 2 speed transmission instead of a single speed found in most EVs.

Obviously we have different perspectives on what constitutes "entertaining to drive".

I guess it's possible to be entertained by fiddling with electronic settings to shift the car's behaviors around, but to me that sounds just as synthetic as dialing in an iRacing car on a simulator. Which can get into serious expenditure levels but is still just a game compared to driving on the track in real life.

I know the instant torque and shove back in the seat will put a smile on everyone’s face

Can you understand why the term 'kool-aid' keeps occurring to me? Short-term excitement will nearly always drown out longer-term satisfaction about what else the car may be good at.

I don't know if it was earlier in this thread or in some other one somewhere else, but there was this Tesla that had to split lanes to shoot past me as I was turning onto a ramp. Between you, me, and the rest of this thread's participants, I really wish he'd tucked in behind me and run the ramp so we could both see what he was made of. There's a fair chance he's glad he didn't, though I doubt he realizes it.

and if you combine that with exceptional handling and a playful chassis it should be a fun car to drive and less expensive to own and operate. If we assume it will look great as well then will that be enough to win over folks that prefer the true V8 exhaust note and manual transmission?

I'm not at all sure it'd be enough. Sounds, vibrations, and having to stay on top of more things in real time are some of the things that make driving fun on a subjective level. It's just you and the machine, with as little electronic assistance/synthetic-ness between you and the machine as possible. EFI gets a pass provided that it's not trying to too many things. Even ABS is barely past a 'maybe', at least with some calibrations.


Norm

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Can you understand why the term 'kool-aid' keeps occurring to me? Short-term excitement will nearly always drown out longer-term satisfaction about what else the car may be good at.

I don't know if it was earlier in this thread or in some other one somewhere else, but there was this Tesla that had to split lanes to shoot past me as I was turning onto a ramp. Between you, me, and the rest of this thread's participants, I really wish he'd tucked in behind me and run the ramp so we could both see what he was made of. There's a fair chance he's glad he didn't, though I doubt he realizes it.

Norm

Keep in mind that certain Tesla Models are very capable cars and they make it even easier for the novice driver to go fast, even around a corner. Here is a comparison of Tesla Model 3 and Camaro SS, notice the Tesla still weighs a bit more as well.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Keep in mind that certain Tesla Models are very capable cars and they make it even easier for the novice driver to go fast, even around a corner. Here is a comparison of Tesla Model 3 and Camaro SS, notice the Tesla still weighs a bit more as well.



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It goes far beyond numbers, though.

It's really not different from telling manual fans automatics shift faster and use less gas. Yes, we get that, but we still like driving a stick. Same tired old argument with EV here, really.

Now, I personally can possibly make an exception for exotic supercars with their sexy-sounding engines when it comes to manual trans, but a 4-door blobby sedan? Nah. Don't care how fast it is. It's an ugly blob and it cannot replace the manual-driving experience, just like paddle shifters on an auto trans can't.

And if you are really a numbers person, M3P costs quite a bit more than an SS w/o 1LE. Looking at the price, it's more comparable to ZL1. While Tesla's fixed price prevents you from paying above MSRP, it also eliminates the chance of you negotiating a good price, which realistically can happen with a lot of Chevy's(perhaps not right now). Given how close M3P is to the SS, I think it will have a hard time even against an SS 1LE, let alone a ZL1, save for the old low-speed acceleration due to grip limitations.