08-04-2020, 04:57 PM | #57 | |
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: BC, Canada
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You probably don't care because fuel is cheaper in the US. Try the West Coast BC, Canada prices, which can go above like CAN$5.50 per gallon. Remember that ponies and Corvettes are supposed to be every man's "supercar", so being somewhat good on gas definitely helps. Now if we are talking about a Ferrari, sure, toss the fuel economy consideration completely out of the window. I personally wouldn't have a huge problem with the difference AFM/DFM will make, but I wouldn't say I don't care at all; if the car gets like half the MPG it currently does on EPA tests(8 MPG city/12 MPG highway), yeah I probably would look at something else.
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2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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08-04-2020, 05:24 PM | #58 | |
Drives: 2016 2SS 8AT Join Date: May 2018
Location: Nevada
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while I agree that the afm actuators will help create back pressure. I dont agree they are needed for it to work. They do quiet the engine down also. When afm kicks in the throttle body opens up. I believe that they use the valves to help mask the sound so it is less noticeable. I may be wrong, but I do know its really easy to turn the afm valves off by themselves in the tune and not affect the afm from kicking in. |
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08-04-2020, 06:28 PM | #59 | |
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DFM is a completely different animal. So far it is only used on V8 engines on some 2019 and newer Silverados and Sierras and will also be offered on the Tahoe and Yukon. It can deactivate as many as 7 cylinders at a time, depending on situation and conditions. From my understanding of it, each cylinder makes a “fire or not” decision on every engine cycle.
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
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08-04-2020, 07:55 PM | #60 | |
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I was reading someones comment on YT a while back claiming that DFM uses the rockers instead of the lifters to deactivate the cylinders. I'm not sure if they knew what they were talking about or not though. My opinion is any cylinder deactivation is junk. It's just done to fool the EPA that it gets better MPG's than it does. Traditionally the SBC is one of the most reliable motors ever. You take a GEN3 or GEN4 LS based motor not setup with AFM, leave it mostly stock, keep up with its maintenance, and don't go out of your way to abuse the crap out of it and it "should" give you several hundreds of thousands of miles of mostly trouble free. I just wish us non-AFM using M6 guys didn't have to get the AFM hardware in our motors. IMO AFM has done a lot to hurt the reputation of the SBC. How many people are getting 200-250K trouble free miles out of them without have to do things like lifter replacements, etc? For example people on longer think of Silverado (or Sierra) as the most dependable, longest lasting trucks on the road. Back in the day they were built like a rock. They were strong as they could be. Like a rock, nothing ever got to them. Whether right or wrong people now think of them as having motors that will happily destroy a motor, or take out the cam, or at least require serious/costly maintenance before 100K miles. |
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08-05-2020, 02:56 AM | #61 | ||
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
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most of the drivetrain problems from newer vehicles from chevy are transmission related, rather than engine related. Considering the likelihood you are going to drive your car to 200,000 miles is literally low single digit% (https://www.iseecars.com/longest-las...s-study#v=2019), it seems a bit of an exaggeration to use it as a measure for reliability that matters. if it can do 10 years without requiring invasive surgery, i'd consider it a winner. Especially at the power levels todays cars put out and their efficiency in doing it. As soon as the consumables and such start coming into time to replace (suspension parts and gaskets etc) it just makes more sense to buy new. The 10 year newer car is gonna have much better performance, efficiency and tech and not stink like farts that the car payment is worth not throwing money into an ever growing pit that your current car is fast going to become. |
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08-05-2020, 06:25 AM | #62 | |
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The chip has nothing to do with the engine reliability. That's GM's electronics divisions under Delco/Delphi you want to complain about. Those early Gen I Pass Key systems were garbage on many GM cars. A well maintained engine should easily get over 200k miles. I've had cars with 225k on the clock and the valve cover has never been off. No leaks, no burning oil, smooth and full power. If AFM affects the long term reliability and performance of the LT1 that's an unreasonable and completely uncalled for addition on GM's part. Right now I have a daily driver and don't drive the Camaro to work but in the future I may decide to make it an every day driver. If it comes to that I fully expect that my engine will run 200k miles without the requirement of a major repair. Theromostat? Yeah, that's not major, especially on these cars. You can get it for $50 and change it yourself in 5 minutes. That's part of what makes the Chevy small block great. |
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08-05-2020, 08:55 AM | #63 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 1LT Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: California
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You're looking at 1-5% of what amounts to all that were made and applying it to represent all of them. Basically for every one you see in that used car mag, there are at least 95 that will never ever make it to 200k for various reasons.
200k mile engines are not the norm. They are very much an exception. Not so much because the engine can't do it but because it's not usually worth keeping the rest of the car alive around the engine by then. It's going to be a while before 2016+ Camaro's have more than a couple cars up in the mileage you are looking at or age range where extra long term reliability can be sampled. It will be interesting to see if afm actually matters as much as you think... But I think in the range 90% of the cars will ever live (down in the 100k -150k range), it'll be fine |
08-05-2020, 09:08 AM | #64 | |
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08-05-2020, 09:31 AM | #65 | ||
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If you mean that AFM works as the system activates then sure it works until it doesn't. Cigarettes help calm nerves until they lead to premature health issues. Alcohol helps with depression, but then you start getting liver problems. Start/stop is no more stupid than AFM. Would you rather fix a starter that goes out or have a lifter go bad and potentially take the motor with it? But yes start/stop is a stupid idea as well. We can agree on that. AFM isn't even a necessary evil as it doesn't help noticeably with MPG's. It's unnecessary other then to help get certain certifications or exemptions. Quote:
I don't look at 200K miles as anything amazing. 300K is where you should start bragging about reliability from a motor that you don't have to open. Last edited by JROC; 08-05-2020 at 10:55 AM. |
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08-05-2020, 10:24 AM | #66 | ||
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As for the start-stop... You mean like half of the Chevy sedans? That crap drives me insane. I let the car roll at lights just to defeat it. |
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08-05-2020, 10:41 AM | #67 | |
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The company can then maintain their fleet CAFE average without dumb, extraneous, frivolous garbage like AFM and CAGS. |
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08-05-2020, 10:44 AM | #68 | |
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Drives: '20 2SS Convertible 6MT Join Date: May 2020
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The problem, too, is that it isn't just the fleet numbers any more that have to be taken into account. Individual vehicles have much more stringent numbers to be attained than ever before to avoid gas guzzler taxes (which is complete BS as it's nothing more than "buying a carbon offset" which is a total joke). |
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08-05-2020, 10:49 AM | #69 | ||
Drives: 19 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Shock Join Date: Apr 2020
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He isn't wrong in the sense that yeah, if you live in the snow belt, most of your car will be consumed by rust before 200k miles, so the engine longevity really doesn't matter much in this case. In these modern cars, a lot of other stuff can fail before that and before 200k miles, most people will get rid of the car for those other issues. Quote:
Also, LS1 is a smaller engine that made less power... Hard to compare to the LT1 which has about 10% extra displacement and 100+ more horsepower. Corvettes are light cars with good aerodynamics. Again, not a good comparison to trucks and even the Camaro(heavier with a blockier front). BTW, I will probably get smack for this, but I am gonna say it: I don't mind Start/Stop. Some of them are executed well. Went on a road trip with some buddies and we had a Grand Cherokee V6, and the Start/Stop is undetectable. Now, it's not something I particularly want in a sports car, but IIRC Euro sports cars like the M4 has a way to permanently disable it. Sent from toaster or something
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2019 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE M6 Shock GM Performance Intake and that's it, because driver mods before car mods Past: 2009 Mazda RX-8 GT M6 Velocity Red Mica (Sold) 2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z51 2LT M7 Velocity Yellow Tintcoat (Flood totaled) |
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08-05-2020, 10:56 AM | #70 |
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For me, the value on the highway is zero in my truck. Driving a big, squared off vehicle at 65-75MPH on roadways with lots of ups and downs to them, it doesn't really demonstrate any actual value. Many areas that are extremely flat will see benefit from it, though, providing you stay at 65 or under.
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