[lbls1]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

Cadillac did not become one of the smallest cars in GM's lineup back in the mid 80's, they produced fwd Sedan Deville's and Seville's but they were small only to the big cars of the 60's & 70's.

Cadillac produced the big rwd Fleetwood up until the final one rolled off the line in model year '96 with the LT-1 V8's same as the Impala SS of the day, these were some quick big cars for the time.

My Dad, as he worked his way up the pecking order at his job, started with Chevrolet and moved up every GM brand except for Buick.

The '84 Coupe and sedan de ville were invariably smaller than the Pontiac and Chevrolet big cars of the same year, thus making them the smallest of the large car regular offerings. The Fleetwood was larger, of course, but that car was a hold-over of the previous chassis design. To your credit the Fleetwood did not get smaller, but it was far from the flamboyant car that it once was. This may have been the start of the decline of the traditional large car segment as we once knew it.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by lbls1

The '84 Coupe and sedan de ville were invariably smaller than the Pontiac and Chevrolet big cars of the same year, thus making them the smallest of the large car regular offerings. The Fleetwood was larger, of course, but that car was a hold-over of the previous chassis design. To your credit the Fleetwood did not get smaller, but it was far from the flamboyant car that it once was. This may have been the start of the decline of the traditional large car segment as we once knew it.

You're confusing big GM rwd platform cars to GM's downsizing full-size fwd platform. Not the same thing but I get why you're confused. In 1985 GM started transitioning the big C (Fleetwood, 98 Regency, Electra 225, Boneville) and B (Caprice/Impala, Delta 88, Lesabre) bodies to fwd but it also kept some rwd cars like the B (Chevrolet Impala) and D (Cadillac Brougham) with the C body becoming the fwd cars.

My Mom's '80 Oldsmobile 98 Regency was on the rwd C body until '86 then went fwd. Cadillac always led the introductions in most cases but the first downsizing in '77 was the volume leader Chevy's Impala/Caprice which stayed in production on the rwd platform until '96 when the Arlington plant was turned into SUV and Truck production instead.

[RLHMARINES]

We had the same car but in blue.

[rocket403]

I was working at a Chev Olds dealer from 1988 to 1990, GM was making a huge number of crap cars at this time and to see Oldsmobile reduced to the crap they were trying to peddle at this time was frustrating. In 1989 I could see that Oldsmobile was toast.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

https://seekingalpha.com/article/412...l-y-competitor

GM future EV plans.

Well here it is.


http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/05/...t-euv-surface/

[GroundhogSS]

I still have no interest in an all-electric car. A Volt would have been considered if they had a more sporty coupe mode.

[lbls1]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

You're confusing big GM rwd platform cars to GM's downsizing full-size fwd platform. Not the same thing but I get why you're confused. In 1985 GM started transitioning the big C (Fleetwood, 98 Regency, Electra 225, Boneville) and B (Caprice/Impala, Delta 88, Lesabre) bodies to fwd but it also kept some rwd cars like the B (Chevrolet Impala) and D (Cadillac Brougham) with the C body becoming the fwd cars.

My Mom's '80 Oldsmobile 98 Regency was on the rwd C body until '86 then went fwd. Cadillac always led the introductions in most cases but the first downsizing in '77 was the volume leader Chevy's Impala/Caprice which stayed in production on the rwd platform until '96 when the Arlington plant was turned into SUV and Truck production instead.

It was no confusion; I didn't consider the rwd vs. fwd platform. Regardless of the drive configuration the downsizing reflected the full sized, top of the line sedans from Cadillac, Buick and Oldsmobile. The year prior to the downsizing all three of them were on rwd platforms.

To be very honest, its my personal belief that this was not a good decision for GM. I feel that it alienated a legion of dedicated fans of the big cars, and in the process destroyed some of its sense of luxury style (my opinion). It was good for efficiency but not so good to the traditionalist in terms of style.

Edit: Take a look at an '84 Caprice and the 84 Bonneville/Parissiene and you will see what I was referring to. Apples to oranges, as Caprice was RWD and Regency (Olds and Buick took to the downsized fwd the same year as Cadillac) was front drive, but in '83 all of them were RWD. Caprice never went to the downsized fwd platform (Thank God), but Pontiac delved into it a bit in '92, perhaps with a bit more flair.

[rocket403]

I gleamed this from a page that outlined the failure of GM and Oldsmobile

"Lessons from Oldsmobile

Make your brand distinctive. When GM decided to adopt a policy of uniformity, the Oldsmobile brand became too, well, general.
Don’t betray your brand values. ‘One can change some of the elements providing that the consumer continues to recognise that the same brand values are still present after the change,’ says Jacques Cherron of brand consultancy JRC&A. Attempting to convert Oldsmobile into a young and hip brand was clearly one brand betrayal too far."

[lbls1]

I remember that big first downsizing in '77. All of the brands large cars were affected. I remember hating it at that moment, but in time I grew to like them. I also remembered that (Chevy Caprice especially) the downsized bodies were able to look new and modern longer than the older styles. They were smart designs and it was a good decision for GM, yet even in '77 (again my op) I felt that a lot was lost in terms of luxury style, especially with the Cadillac and Chevy.

Ehh...veering off the topic, but in a sense it would be nice for GM to try to regain its design flair that it once had in abundance.

[rocket403]

1st time I was in a new GM FWD platform was a very good friends family bought a Chevy Citation and it was ugly in every way, it had no redeeming qualities at all. Then in 85 Cutlass Calais and most platforms went FWD and that was the start of the end for Oldsmobile.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by rocket403

I was working at a Chev Olds dealer from 1988 to 1990, GM was making a huge number of crap cars at this time and to see Oldsmobile reduced to the crap they were trying to peddle at this time was frustrating. In 1989 I could see that Oldsmobile was toast.

In 1991 after returning from Overseas and moving back to Cali, we were looking for a new car for our young growing family but GM was making it very difficult with its design language of the day. Exterior might have been acceptable in some cases but as my better half stated on a couple of occasions that the dash just looked too much like an old mans dash.

Which one would you choose?

It was my first and so far only non GM purchase, we loved that car for over 10 years and 200K miles of spirited driving. It was my wife's daily driver up and down the 405 & 5 freeway and finally also back east. Inspection I & inspection II's added up if you drove these cars a lot of miles but in Cali it was reasonably cheap with all of the factory authorized service centers in my area of southern orange county but the car was bought from Alhambra near LALA Land.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by lbls1

I remember that big first downsizing in '77. All of the brands large cars were affected. I remember hating it at that moment, but in time I grew to like them. I also remembered that (Chevy Caprice especially) the downsized bodies were able to look new and modern longer than the older styles. They were smart designs and it was a good decision for GM, yet even in '77 (again my op) I felt that a lot was lost in terms of luxury style, especially with the Cadillac and Chevy.

Ehh...veering off the topic, but in a sense it would be nice for GM to try to regain its design flair that it once had in abundance.

I agree that GM for the most part lost their design mojo and put out some boring appliance cars during that time and I believe Roger Smiths influence was a key issue but I digress. I would have loved a Cadillac Catera if it was available at the time but it wasn't.

[90503]

1967 FWD El Dorado....Olds Toronado FWD was a year earlier in '66...Beautiful cars...

[KMPrenger]

2020 Sierra gets some nice updates, and the 10 speed is more available (with the 5.3 with DFM). I would guess concerning the 10 speed, the same will happen with the chevys.

https://www-cnet-com.cdn.ampproject....ain-updates%2F