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Old 09-17-2021, 06:29 AM   #57
Joshinator99

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
FIC +30 and LPE di pump with a low side should handle 700whp on pump E. At least that is what Brett told me. I wouldn't buy LPE injectors because the FIC can be had for a bit less if you know where to look.

I am considering grabbing a set of the FIC +30 being they will allow me to lower rail pressure some and run more E. Not sure if I can get back to full pump E but it should be close. It will probably be one of those deals where I can run full pump E in the warmer months and have to drop back when it cools down because Supercharged cars make 1.5- 2psi more boost when it's 40-50 degrees vs 75+. Can always swap pulleys to keep boost the same throughout the season as well.
LPE injectors are +52% which is a big jump in output over the FIC at +30%, no? Based on the datalogs from my last dyno time, I believe I can run full E85 at my current 900+ WHP level. IPW was only 5.1 on E50, and only 2175 psi commanded rail pressure. Plenty of wiggle room on both fronts IMO.
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 8.00/2.65, Mast Motorsports Black Label LT1 heads, Fore Innovations triple in-tank pump setup, CamMotion custom blower cam, Katech VVT & AFM delete covers, Rotofab Big Gulp, Katech 103mm TB, Johnson 2110R lifters, GPI forged pistons & rods, LPE +52 injectors, LPE BB HPFP, AWE Touring CB, GForce 3.5” DS, GForce Outlaw axles, 2” ceramic coated Dynatech headers, MM Wild CC, everything BMR makes, OEM 1LE wheels (street), Forgestar D5 bead locks (track). 906 WHP/840 TQ SAE
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Old 09-17-2021, 06:40 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crush365 View Post
Thanks for the input. I have a Banks data monster. Wasn't logging my runs, but saw the IAT at around 121-130 at the line. This was around 50-60 degrees over ambient. (Sat in staging lanes for a while)
That much margin above ambient at the starting line sounds like your device is showing MAT instead of IAT.
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Old 09-17-2021, 08:28 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshinator99 View Post
LPE injectors are +52% which is a big jump in output over the FIC at +30%, no? Based on the datalogs from my last dyno time, I believe I can run full E85 at my current 900+ WHP level. IPW was only 5.1 on E50, and only 2175 psi commanded rail pressure. Plenty of wiggle room on both fronts IMO.
The 700whp statement was based on a stock engine with stock cam. With a 38 or 42% fuel lobe I would think 800-850 on full E at LT4 pressure with the +30's. My brother is running them on his Z06 and has enough fuel for E60 @ 16psi of boost on his H/C 2650 setup. If he went to the +60 then I think he could run whatever E that the pump offers which is normally E78 around here.

For my setup I think they would be fine and I can also get the FIC for less then half of the LPE +52% but that doesn't do you any good if they won't meet your fuel needs. I believe the +60's were still less then the LPE's but I don't see them available right now.

Couple things to note. Your injector MS will go up .5 every 10% you move up in Ethanol content.

The LPE injectors will start to misfire if you crank the rail pressure up as they are designed around LT1 fuel pressure and don't like much over 2400psi if I remember correctly. The FIC's can handle up to 3200psi without misfire.

The LPE DI pump is also designed around LT1 fuel pressure but it seems to be stable up to 2900psi. Word is the LT4 pump has been tested to 34 or 3600psi and produced more fuel headroom. However the LT4 pump will only handle a 38% lobe where the gen 2 LPE will work with a 42% lobe. Everything seems to be rated around a specific pressure and not how they perform at max sustainable pressure.

Wish I had the time to test all this stuff on my own because a lot of the data out there is as clear as mud. From what data I have seen I believe the LPE gen 2 pump with 42% fuel lobe, FIC +60's @ LT4 pressure, and a good low side should handle 1000whp on full pump E.
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Last edited by KingLT1; 09-17-2021 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 09-17-2021, 09:47 AM   #60
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Testing my understanding...

For starting with a new speed density tune from STOCK values (they were NOT adjusted in the VVE tables by the canned tune), in order to start with a rich tune... I'm thinking I need to add something like 60% fuel in the higher PR/RPM cells to account for a best/worst boost of 8 psi at higher PR/RPM (down and right on the table)... but only like 12% to 15% in the lower PR/RPM range, and interpolated between the low and high PR/RPM due to the linear boost rate of the procharger?

In other words, the canned tune nerfs the MAP and VVE in favor of a MAF only, so the VVE tables are still basically stock n/a values.

Procharger has linear boost from 0 at low rpm to 7-8.5-ish psi at high rpm.

I'll have a baro breakout and 3 bar MAP by the time I do this, so I'll have good PR. So map should read 14.65 + 8.5 psi = 23.15 psi at full boost (or kpa/bar equivalent). Increase in air = proportional increase in fuel right? So 23.15 / 14.65 = 1.58 or 58% increase in air at the top end... highest PR and highest RPM.... so highest expected PR + RPM should be + 60% or so fuel... and that would scale down to something like +12% safety margin or as you travel either down the table (lower PR) and/or to the left on the table (lower RPM)?

If anyone has a good VVE table for a similar application, that would be great to see to validate what I might need to do.
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Old 09-17-2021, 10:04 AM   #61
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Okay, so after posting the above, I also found this... So maybe just a flat 15% and then slow and steady building of the table...

https://www.hpacademy.com/forum/gene...er-intallation
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Old 09-17-2021, 12:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
The 700whp statement was based on a stock engine with stock cam. With a 38 or 42% fuel lobe I would think 800-850 on full E at LT4 pressure with the +30's. My brother is running them on his Z06 and has enough fuel for E60 @ 16psi of boost on his H/C 2650 setup. If he went to the +60 then I think he could run whatever E that the pump offers which is normally E78 around here.

For my setup I think they would be fine and I can also get the FIC for less then half of the LPE +52% but that doesn't do you any good if they won't meet your fuel needs. I believe the +60's were still less then the LPE's but I don't see them available right now.

Couple things to note. Your injector MS will go up .5 every 10% you move up in Ethanol content.

The LPE injectors will start to misfire if you crank the rail pressure up as they are designed around LT1 fuel pressure and don't like much over 2400psi if I remember correctly. The FIC's can handle up to 3200psi without misfire.

The LPE DI pump is also designed around LT1 fuel pressure but it seems to be stable up to 2900psi. Word is the LT4 pump has been tested to 34 or 3600psi and produced more fuel headroom. However the LT4 pump will only handle a 38% lobe where the gen 2 LPE will work with a 42% lobe. Everything seems to be rated around a specific pressure and not how they perform at max sustainable pressure.

Wish I had the time to test all this stuff on my own because a lot of the data out there is as clear as mud. From what data I have seen I believe the LPE gen 2 pump with 42% fuel lobe, FIC +60's @ LT4 pressure, and a good low side should handle 1000whp on full pump E.
Great info as always!
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2017 Chevy Camaro 2SS A8 Whipple 8.00/2.65, Mast Motorsports Black Label LT1 heads, Fore Innovations triple in-tank pump setup, CamMotion custom blower cam, Katech VVT & AFM delete covers, Rotofab Big Gulp, Katech 103mm TB, Johnson 2110R lifters, GPI forged pistons & rods, LPE +52 injectors, LPE BB HPFP, AWE Touring CB, GForce 3.5” DS, GForce Outlaw axles, 2” ceramic coated Dynatech headers, MM Wild CC, everything BMR makes, OEM 1LE wheels (street), Forgestar D5 bead locks (track). 906 WHP/840 TQ SAE
2021 Ford Expedition Limited 4WD (daily driver)
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Old Yesterday, 10:53 PM   #63
ZO6Ted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
The 700whp statement was based on a stock engine with stock cam. With a 38 or 42% fuel lobe I would think 800-850 on full E at LT4 pressure with the +30's. My brother is running them on his Z06 and has enough fuel for E60 @ 16psi of boost on his H/C 2650 setup. If he went to the +60 then I think he could run whatever E that the pump offers which is normally E78 around here.

For my setup I think they would be fine and I can also get the FIC for less then half of the LPE +52% but that doesn't do you any good if they won't meet your fuel needs. I believe the +60's were still less then the LPE's but I don't see them available right now.

Couple things to note. Your injector MS will go up .5 every 10% you move up in Ethanol content.

The LPE injectors will start to misfire if you crank the rail pressure up as they are designed around LT1 fuel pressure and don't like much over 2400psi if I remember correctly. The FIC's can handle up to 3200psi without misfire.

The LPE DI pump is also designed around LT1 fuel pressure but it seems to be stable up to 2900psi. Word is the LT4 pump has been tested to 34 or 3600psi and produced more fuel headroom. However the LT4 pump will only handle a 38% lobe where the gen 2 LPE will work with a 42% lobe. Everything seems to be rated around a specific pressure and not how they perform at max sustainable pressure.

Wish I had the time to test all this stuff on my own because a lot of the data out there is as clear as mud. From what data I have seen I believe the LPE gen 2 pump with 42% fuel lobe, FIC +60's @ LT4 pressure, and a good low side should handle 1000whp on full pump E.
Wow King if this is the case it pretty much answers the 1k fueling question in my thread. Also, you are referring to blowers most likely so does this mean I could probably be good with this setup with twins?

CR is not taking orders so I may not get to do port as I had planned. I really value your opinion brother it's obvious who knows what here and you certainly are one.
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