[MyNameIs]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Now let’s handle this part.

What do I (and most EV drivers) do while their cars are charging? Eat dinner. Watch TV. Sleep. Whatever people do when they are in for the night. Because most of the charging is done at home. I’ve had a Level 2 charger in my garage since we got our first Chevy Volt in 2012. For that car and the next Chevy Volt we got in 2016 we almost N-E-V-E-R charged anywhere but home. When we did, it was because there just happened to be a charger wherever we happened to be. We plugged in because we could not because we had to. For people who are able to charge at home it is very unlikely that they would need to access public charging unless they are driving more than the range of their vehicle in a single day. When we had a Volt, that was roughly 50 miles a day. Then the car would shift to gas. That didn’t happen much. For the Tesla we have now that would be over 300 miles, so only an issue on long trips.

And even then, the Tesla can charge from 20% to 80% charge in roughly a half hour. If we wanted to we could watch Netflix or any other streaming on the car’s screen for that half hour or so. Some people chose to play video games on it. Wouldn’t be my choice, but you did ask what people do.

Yeh...who wants to spend over 1 hour at McDonalds eating dinner while your car is charging when you have to be someplace? Watch TV?...How many TVs have you seen at a charging station? How many have charging stations in their driveways? in their apt complexes? The new scam happening now is peeps are disconnecting the charge from unattended vehicles and plugging them in their cars. Watch netflix on your cars screen while your car charges? You gots to be joking!...Why not just have a picnic too?...in 20 deg weather. Your arguments are so weak. While you are sitting around charging your clown car I have already reached my destination and have returned back home eating a steak dinner not a Big Mac.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

Yeh...who wants to spend over 1 hour at McDonalds eating dinner while your car is charging when you have to be someplace?

Who ever said anything about McDonalds? Where the hell are you gettin’ that? Having dinner AT HOME while the car charges.

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

Watch TV?...How many TVs have you seen at a charging station?

AT HOME while the car charges.

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

How many have charging stations in their driveways? in their apt complexes?

Apparently a lot more than you are inclined to believe, given how sales of EVs, especially Tesla but not only Tesla, are selling.

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

The new scam happening now is peeps are disconnecting the charge from unattended vehicles and plugging them in their cars.

Hilarious that you think that since most (not all) EVs, especially Tesla though, lock the charge cord. The car owner has to be within distance with their phone or key card to unlock it.

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

Watch netflix on your cars screen while your car charges? You gots to be joking!...

Not my cup o’ tea but there are people who do it. More power to them. I’ll be sure to tell them you disapprove. I’m positive that will make them stop.

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

Why not just have a picnic too?...in 20 deg weather. Your arguments are so weak. While you are sitting around charging your clown car I have already reached my destination and have returned back home eating a steak dinner not a Big Mac.

Actually I reached my destination while you were standing at the gas pump because I left my house with 300 miles of range while you woke up with 1/8 of a tank and a red light blinking.

This will likely be the last time I reply to you because you either don’t get basic principles or you don’t want to get basic principles for the sake of maintaining an argument and I ain’t got time for that.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Last week I bought a Tesla Model Y Long Range with options for $52k. Last year a similar spec vehicle cost those buyers $68,000. Sucks for them, rocks for me. If they drop it another $5k in the near future I’d have no issue with it. When I bought it it was worth (to me) more than what I paid for it. If they raise the prices in the near future I’ll be relieved that I got in when I did.

The lesson I take away from that is: "Wait a few years until this stuff settles down, things are way too volitile in the EV market right now."

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Quoted from the article you linked…” The upshot of the study is that “occasional fast charging is fine.”

For people who charge their vehicles at home, fast charging will only be occasional.

Maybe a false analogy, but for comparison, how often would you skip filling a gas tank on an ICE car if it meant raising your engine's oil consumption, or lowering it's compression ratio, or even just reducing the size of the fuel tank? Someone like me would avoid fast charging at all costs because it's "hard on the car". But, instead, here we are rationalizing why it's normal and we should just accept it, etc. Just a normal part of owning an EV! Crushing depreciation rates...

[olrocker]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

GM’s market cap (value of stock x number of outstanding shares) is $37B.
Ford’s market cap is $39B
Stellantis’ market cap is $58B.


Tesla’s market cap is $635B. So who’s likely to buy whom?

Their interiors are sub-par quality and bland design. Their exterior design “theme” is generic. They do not have history or pedigree to build on and use for inspiration. No Harley Earl, No Bill Mitchell, or Ed Welburn. If they even have an interior design studio I guarantee it’s a third the size and artistic output as GM’s.

They build electric cars. Their product and customer base is narrow and limited.

Plenty of companies in the past have been bought out or merged with the “lesser” company becoming the parent company.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by olrocker

Their interiors are sub-par quality and bland design. Their exterior design “theme” is generic. They do not have history or pedigree to build on and use for inspiration. No Harley Earl, No Bill Mitchell, or Ed Welburn. If they even have an interior design studio I guarantee it’s a third the size and artistic output as GM’s.

They build electric cars. Their product and customer base is narrow and limited.

Souless, expensive transportation appliances with huge touch screens, low re-sale value, and a growing number of ways to track, monitor, and eventually restrict your travel.

[Martinjlm]

I ran across this video today. Only a few hours old. This guy has a pretty fair and fact based account. Skip the first couple minutes if you’re not interested in hiskids’ triathlons. https://youtu.be/Y8t7R_l5jQc?si=zoAccmsSID85tlPM

[MyNameIs]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Who ever said anything about McDonalds? Where the hell are you gettin’ that? Having dinner AT HOME while the car charges. AT HOME while the car charges. Apparently a lot more than you are inclined to believe, given how sales of EVs, especially Tesla but not only Tesla, are selling. Hilarious that you think that since most (not all) EVs, especially Tesla though, lock the charge cord. The car owner has to be within distance with their phone or key card to unlock it. Not my cup o’ tea but there are people who do it. More power to them. I’ll be sure to tell them you disapprove. I’m positive that will make them stop. Actually I reached my destination while you were standing at the gas pump because I left my house with 300 miles of range while you woke up with 1/8 of a tank and a red light blinking.

This will likely be the last time I reply to you because you either don’t get basic principles or you don’t want to get basic principles for the sake of maintaining an argument and I ain’t got time for that.

Fortunately my time is organized around things I want to do and places to be...not around my car waiting to be charged and where to charge it and being told not to charge it on extremely hot days so as to not strain the grid and cause a brown out or possibly black out.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Capricio

The lesson I take away from that is: "Wait a few years until this stuff settles down, things are way too volitile in the EV market right now."

Ever known ANY successful company actually reduce the price of their products when they are selling record numbers?
I can tell you Audi, BMW and Mercedes arent doing it, and probably wont ever do it, Tesla are are a lore unto themselves when it comes to pricing.

Buy a Tesla now, by the time they reduce the price again youll have saved the difference in gas costs

And yeah, Teslas arent the best build quality, you might not like the giant screen or the fact that everyone else has one but thats a Tesla thing, not an EV thing - my etron is just as well built and designed as every other high end Audi is.

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by docwra

Ever known ANY successful company actually reduce the price of their products when they are selling record numbers?
I can tell you Audi, BMW and Mercedes arent doing it, and probably wont ever do it, Tesla are are a lore unto themselves when it comes to pricing.

Buy a Tesla now, by the time they reduce the price again youll have saved the difference in gas costs

And yeah, Teslas arent the best build quality, you might not like the giant screen or the fact that everyone else has one but thats a Tesla thing, not an EV thing - my etron is just as well built and designed as every other high end Audi is.

Guessing your e-tron cost more than your Camaro, and assuming they were bought around the same time... I wonder what the proportional resale value will be on both after 5 years? My money is on the Camaro. And if prices continue dropping on EVs/Teslas by $6-$40k/year, that's more than enough motivation for me to wait for prices/conditions to level off. The effects of solid state on pricing/values have yet to play out. I don't spend $6k on gas in year, and you guys always leave out the other additional costs of EVs.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Capricio;113'79024

Guessing your e-tron cost more than your Camaro, and assuming they were bought around the same time... I wonder what the proportional resale value will be on both after 5 years? My money is on the Camaro. And if prices continue dropping on EVs/Teslas by $6-$40k/year, that's more than enough motivation for me to wait for prices/conditions to level off. The effects of solid state on pricing/values have yet to play out. I don't spend $6k on gas in year, and you guys always leave out the other additional costs of EVs.

They probably won’t keep dropping. There are three reasons Tesla dropped prices when they did…

1. To get some of the Model S / X trims under the price threshold to qualify for IRA incentive ($55k for cars, $80k for SUVs) and to get ALL of the Model 3 and Model Y trims under the IRA threshold
2. To “F” with Ford’s pricing on Mach E. Ford had to drop Mach E pricing on some trims to stay below Model Y pricing
3. Next gen versions of Model 3 and Model Y are coming in 2024, so lower prices will bring in some of the people who were thinking of waiting for the refresh.

I guess a 4th reason would be “because they could”, which is often an Elon reason for doing anything.

[bigd1276]

Here's why people aren't buying EVs in spite of price cuts and tax breaks.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ptaskbar&ei=11

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Capricio

Guessing your e-tron cost more than your Camaro, and assuming they were bought around the same time... I wonder what the proportional resale value will be on both after 5 years? My money is on the Camaro.

Camaro will undoubtedly hold its money better but you cant really compare as one is mega rare and one of the greatest automotive creations ever while the other is a kitchen appliance on wheels

High end EVs depreciate pretty similarly to their ICE equivalents here, that said the EV version generally starts off 15% more expensive.
Smaller EVs are holding money better than ICE equivalents but not by huge amounts, I should also caveat that by saying used car prices and electricity costs are are higher than they have ever been, this could well be skewing the data.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by bigd1276

Here's why people aren't buying EVs in spite of price cuts and tax breaks.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ptaskbar&ei=11

Didn’t we just do this whole “EVs aren’t selling” dance a few days ago? Fact is they are selling. Faster than they sold last year which was faster than they sold the year before that.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Why do you say that? As you plan your answer know that I will come back with a ton of data showing the opposite.

I’ll start with…

• best selling vehicle in the world in 2023: Tesla Model Y (4th best in US)
• In the US, EVs sold more than 300,000 vehicles in the 3rd quarter. More than any other quarter previously and leading to
• 2023 being the year where EVs top 1 million vehicles sold in the year.

So, again…why do you say EV is falling flat on its face?

The article doesn’t present any facts that are incorrect. What it does do is not include all of the relevant facts. I don’t assume the writer has an agenda associated with that. Just an issue of not understanding what days in inventory is, how it’s calculated, and how it’s used. There are some very specific instances where days in inventory can lead to some incorrect conclusions and the writer might have tripped over a couple of those.

When vehicles are in “launch mode” (which many EVs are) days in inventory is likely to be wildly overstated. Sales are just starting, so average vehicles sold / day will be really low. Automakers are stocking dealer lots so inventory will be very high. Computing days in inventory based on early sales will result in a really high number. vehicles need to be available for sale for several months before the sales per day average actually means anything.

There are some EVs that have really troubling days in inventory numbers. Specifically Mustang Mach E and F150 Lightning. The both have well over 100 days inventory and they’ve been on the market for a while, so the sales averages are stable enough to calculate days in inventory and draw assumptions from it. In the case of Mach E, I think Ford was expecting sales to increase and totally NOT expecting a $7,000 price drop on Model Y. As a result, Ford had to cut prices on Mach E to match and sales stayed pretty much flat. So Ford over-built, expecting a sales increase that didn’t come.

Lightning is a harder one to understand. Ford should have seen that interest in the truck and sales were declining. Not clear why they kept building at rate. Other than those two, EV inventory is probably about right for where the cars are in their sales cycles.