Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Members Area > General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion


Bigwormgraphix


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-19-2024, 08:58 PM   #1765
MyNameIs
 
Drives: Camaro SS
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Middle Park East, Liberty City
Posts: 216
EV's....Yep...its a Bust.

https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodit...-bust-5630493c
MyNameIs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2024, 11:48 PM   #1766
Martinjlm
Retired from GM
 
Martinjlm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIs View Post
Yup. Huge bust. So far there were only 106,803 EVs sold in January. Highest month of sales so far. And typically, January is the slowest sales month in the auto industry. At 107k sales per month there would be about 1.3M sold in 2024. Not that much more than the 1.2M sold in 2023. But since later months are expected to show stronger sales than January, projections are for another record year falling somewhere between 1.5 - 2 million EVs sold in the US.

January 2022: just over 40,000 EVs sold. Full year 2022 was 809,700
January 2023: just under 80,000 EVs sold. Full year 2023 was 1.2M
January 2024: 106,803 EVs sold. Full year is projected to be just under 2 million.

For those willing to let facts get in the way of a good story, here's some actual sales data.

The chart below is included in the linked article. I just placed the red dot to show where January 2024 EV sales would show on the chart.

https://cleantechnica.com/2024/02/13...h-of-the-year/


What is slowing down is the RATE of sales growth, not actual sales. Sales continue to grow, just at a slower rate.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack |


Martinjlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2024, 12:08 AM   #1767
Martinjlm
Retired from GM
 
Martinjlm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,109
Just for giggles, here's how the sales break out by brand for January 2024:
  1. Tesla: 61,631
  2. Ford: 7,510
  3. Rivian: 4178
  4. Chevrolet: 4,143
  5. Hyundai: 3,904
  6. BMW: 3,762
  7. Mercedes: 3,639
  8. Volkswagen: 3,012
  9. Kia: 2,316
  10. Audi: 2,219
  11. Nissan: 1,821
  12. Toyota: 1,169
  13. Cadillac: 1,056
  14. Subaru: 887
  15. Lexus: 880
  16. Fisker: 855
  17. Polestar: 745
  18. Porsche: 575
  19. Volvo: 484
  20. Genesis: 419
  21. Lucid: 384
  22. GMC: 379
  23. BrightDrop: 293
  24. Canoo: 267
  25. Cruise: 87
  26. Jaguar: 77
  27. VinFast: 70
  28. Rolls Royce: 40
  29. Zoox: 1
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack |


Martinjlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2024, 06:38 AM   #1768
MSS1LE
 
Drives: Chevy Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Nunya
Posts: 260
Of course when the base you're starting from is super low, like EV sales are, it's easy to record high 'growth'.

Hey, our sales doubled!

Really?

Yeah, last year we sold 2 and this year we sold 4! I guess everyone loves our stuff.

Dealers are asking not to be shipped EVs. EV assembly lines are laying off shifts. CEO's are publicly backing away from their EV commitment deadlines. Consumer reports put out an article stating that EVs have 76% more problems than ICE vehicles. The overall ownership of EVs declined in 2023.

Video on hidden costs of EVs.

https://youtu.be/T7fGDw7U2Wg?si=1d8Ios-FL7VTy8x9

Much higher insurance.

Much higher repair cost.

Many shops either can’t or won’t work on them.

Frequent tire replacement



Stick a fork in it, it's done.
__________________
Vehicle chronology: GTO, YZ 250, GPZ 1100, V65 Sabre, RX-7 Twin Turbo, WRX STI, 6th Gen SS, 6th Gen SS 1LE

Last edited by MSS1LE; 02-20-2024 at 06:49 AM.
MSS1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2024, 08:37 AM   #1769
Martinjlm
Retired from GM
 
Martinjlm's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post
Of course when the base you're starting from is super low, like EV sales are, it's easy to record high 'growth'.

Hey, our sales doubled!

Really?

Yeah, last year we sold 2 and this year we sold 4! I guess everyone loves our stuff.
Finally something we can agree on! Sales doubling year over year from really low numbers isn't a big deal. Until it repeats year after year after year as EV sales have done 2020 - 23. So, now that sales have crested over 1 million units, the sales rate has slowed...because bigger numbers are harder to double. But growth is still double digit. Just 20+% as opposed to 40+%. So, as I said and pointed out with real data, the rate of sales has fallen (haters, this is where you get to jump in) but volume growth is continuing (and this is why you need to relax).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post
Dealers are asking not to be shipped EVs. EV assembly lines are laying off shifts. CEO's are publicly backing away from their EV commitment deadlines. Consumer reports put out an article stating that EVs have 76% more problems than ICE vehicles. The overall ownership of EVs declined in 2023.
Which is interesting since most EVs aren't sold at dealerships No wonder they want to stop the sales of them. They're not in on it. The line in bold is just a bold faced lie. Bring data or go home. Remember, I have the entire CarFax database at my fingertips. I have access to how many vehicles of whatever type are registered down to a zip code level of accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post
Video on hidden costs of EVs.

https://youtu.be/T7fGDw7U2Wg?si=1d8Ios-FL7VTy8x9

Much higher insurance.
Mostly true, but not my personal experience. My insurance went up commensurate with replacing a 7 year old $40k car with a brand new $50k car. In any event, not enough to offset the savings from not purchasing gas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post
Much higher repair cost.
Probably true. I hope to never find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post
Many shops either can’t or won’t work on them.
Definitely true. This was also true of Audis for several years when they switched to aluminum panels. Funny thing though, people tend to learn what is important and profitable. No longer a problem getting body work done on Audis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post
Frequent tire replacement
Yet to be seen. The only reason would be vehicle mass. Most full-size trucks weigh a lot more than my Model Y. Don't hear complaints about frequent tire replacement from full-size truck owners. The industry knows how to make long-lasting tires for heavy vehicles. Now, if we're talking Hummers and Cybertrucks and other stupidly heavy vehicles, those are niche and the buyers get what they deserve. Meanwhile, my Camaro goes through tires much faster than our Volt did and I expect that will be the same in comparison to the Model Y. Our second Volt and my Camaro were both bought in 2017. From day of purchase to the day the Volt got totaled I replaced tires on the Camaro twice. I never replaced tires on the Volt. The Volt had a lot more miles on it. Matter of fact, ordering new tires for the Camaro today. And the funny thing here is I actually keep two sets of wheels and tires in rotation for that car. Hopefully switching to Contis will slow my turnover rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post
Stick a fork in it, it's done.
Okay
__________________
2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack |



Last edited by Martinjlm; 02-20-2024 at 09:56 AM.
Martinjlm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2024, 09:42 AM   #1770
silversleeper
Big Crow
 
silversleeper's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 ZL1
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California
Posts: 1,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIs View Post
I dont have subs so couldn't see the article. From a quick look seems like they process ore and don't have it worked out to mine from their open pit nearby? Their plan is to ship in raw ore to process? Dang that's got to be expensive all that heavy rock to process down.
Well if the price WAS so high it could be profitable, you see that in mining where it is deep or the deposit has small amounts per ton of rock that has to be processed, like gold, when prices are very high its worth it and low its a money loser. So I did the homework finding a chart of lithium prices, yep as expected, looks like a good idea from a few years back and the rocketing prices that could go sky high. now, not so much. IDK what your point was but thats my two cents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS1LE View Post

Video on hidden costs of EVs.

https://youtu.be/T7fGDw7U2Wg?si=1d8Ios-FL7VTy8x9

Much higher insurance.

Much higher repair cost.

Many shops either can’t or won’t work on them.

Frequent tire replacement
The video is deceptive. Read the comments under it and listen to what's actually said by a real owner. Let's compare rates on a $80k X or $95k X Plaid to a $35k generic Ford and see if the rates are higher. What an stupid NEWS story for anyone with a bit of sense. My favorite line is when he says we talked to several owners and they don't realize how much it's costing them. On camera the guy said he does not have to pay for routine maintenance costs and owns 4 EVs, but he has no idea of costs? Dumb comment to be sure. On insurance, of course a car that costs twice as much to replace costs more to insure. Is it reasonably higher than the generic Ford or Toyota for those reasons, yes but not like the story distorts. Is my ZL1 more than the V6 Camaro to insure? Of course but I did look into that too and not listen to the distorted comments they were fantastically high to insure. Your insurance has a free rate quote tool online see for yourself. Who will drive it and miles makes a huge difference in prices so if you play with the numbers make sure you compare a same base price car and same driver and miles per year.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by silversleeper; 02-20-2024 at 10:16 AM.
silversleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:50 AM   #1771
MSS1LE
 
Drives: Chevy Camaro
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Nunya
Posts: 260
As Ursula Weigl, a partner at McKinsey consultancy, explained, "[the] EV market is extremely distorted by incentive schemes around the world," with the demand "artificially stoked, and it currently ends with the second-hand market."

As Fortune pointed out, the demand for EVs has been all but mandated around the world, especially in Europe when, in reality, there are still not that many people who actually want to buy them.

And the sad irony is, if governments had allowed demand for EVs to grow naturally with the free market, most of these companies would not be in this situation.

It's time to accept the fact that most people are not yet ready or willing to adopt EVs, and may never want to.

Distorting the market to force people to buy something they don't want will only end up killing any possibility of people adopting that product on their own.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...9ed0e097f&ei=7
__________________
Vehicle chronology: GTO, YZ 250, GPZ 1100, V65 Sabre, RX-7 Twin Turbo, WRX STI, 6th Gen SS, 6th Gen SS 1LE
MSS1LE is offline   Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.