[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Norm, seriously, as I’ve said many times, they designed the Gen6 for the wants and needs of the “Camaro Faithful” a small group of about a dozen or so recognized by GM enthusiasts. It was not designed for broad appeal. From what I’ve heard it was never even cliniced. As I’ve said it would be the same as advertising LH baseball gloves to Right Handers. More awareness of a car with poor visibility, no trunk space and a limited rear seat won’t result in more sales, at least enough to justify the expense. Plus you have to at least admit anyone in the segment buying a Mustang or Challenger already knows about the Camaro. So advertising would be for people buying SUVs and convincing them to go 180 degrees different. And that is not we’re the market is trending.

I think your assessment is spot on.

[Big Lebowski]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Here is my take, people my age group (33 here) and the generation younger than me don't really value cars and driving. yeah there is a handful that do, but the vast majority do not. Cars get you from point A to point B. With the rise of rideshare, and teh fact lot of 22-30 year olds(at least my experience) like to live in the city there is no reason to own a car. Buddy of mine just moved out Chicago to the suburbs. He is an enthusiast and loves driving so he is the minority but he paid $300 month for his parking spot. The masses are not going to do that, they will just uber every where. Then by the time they are ready to move out of the city that means most of the time they are getting married and popping out kids, not a great combo for sporty car.

I agree with pretty much everything you are suggesting, but I'll add that Covid has thrown a wrinkle in that formula. I live out in Lombard and like Carol Stream, we have seen a MASSIVE exodus of Chicago to the burbs (I'm sure the same is happening across the country).

Covid put a spotlight on lack of living space, private outdoor space AND parking space. Real estate values shot up dramatically. As a result, suburban travel and car transportation is a must and is on the rise. As a result, we've see an increase in used car values.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Big Lebowski

I agree with pretty much everything you are suggesting, but I'll add that Covid has thrown a wrinkle in that formula. I live out in Lombard and like Carol Stream, we have seen a MASSIVE exodus of Chicago to the burbs (I'm sure the same is happening across the country).

Covid put a spotlight on lack of living space, private outdoor space AND parking space. Real estate values shot up dramatically. As a result, suburban travel and car transportation is a must and is on the rise. As a result, we've see an increase in used car values.

Hello neighbor haha!

I'll add to the covid comment, it's also added to the way/number of people that can successfully work from home now and thus might not need a car/multiple cars anymore. Hell my neighbor hasn't had to go into the office since March of last year. I'd be shocked if he put 500 miles on his car since last year

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Norm, seriously, as I’ve said many times, they designed the Gen6 for the wants and needs of the “Camaro Faithful” a small group of about a dozen or so recognized by GM enthusiasts. It was not designed for broad appeal. From what I’ve heard it was never even cliniced. As I’ve said it would be the same as advertising LH baseball gloves to Right Handers. More awareness of a car with poor visibility, no trunk space and a limited rear seat won’t result in more sales, at least enough to justify the expense. Plus you have to at least admit anyone in the segment buying a Mustang or Challenger already knows about the Camaro. So advertising would be for people buying SUVs and convincing them to go 180 degrees different. And that is not we’re the market is trending.

Yep, there's no amount of advertising that will help this car sell more units. At least, not in an amount that it would be viable for GM.

The market is just different now. It's different than it was 30 years ago when Camaros were also small and had terrible trunk(rear hatch) space. People loved them back then but we're in different times now. Tastes and trends change and unfortunately, new sports/muscle cars aren't really on the masses radar.

How many kids or teenagers do you think want a Camaro now compared to 25+ years ago? I almost never see a young person looking at Camaros and back in the late 80s and early 90s, fast cars is all we would talk about in school. We would always annoy the local dealership folks by going to gawking at the Camaros and Corvettes.
These cars just aren't on most kids radar and they're not dreaming about owning one some day.

[UnknownJinX]

I will add another point:

Advertising about Camaro itself may be a futile effort, but if it helps reel people into a dealer, then it's not a waste. They may not pick up a Camaro, but if they go home with a Chevy or any GM, it's a win.

That's what sports cars do. They build the brand image and sucks people into the dealer. Corvette is starting to become a bit expensive. Some people say that the Camaro is the new Corvette.

I mean, even with the ads advertising all Chevy models, we aren't seeing Camaro being involved all that much.

[01pewterz28]

Nope I knew this was my last Camaro, I will add a C8 to my lineup and then hope the ALL Electric GMC Yukon XL or Suburban will hold up to the task.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I will add another point:

Advertising about Camaro itself may be a futile effort, but if it helps reel people into a dealer, then it's not a waste. They may not pick up a Camaro, but if they go home with a Chevy or any GM, it's a win.

That's what sports cars do. They build the brand image and sucks people into the dealer. Corvette is starting to become a bit expensive. Some people say that the Camaro is the new Corvette.

I mean, even with the ads advertising all Chevy models, we aren't seeing Camaro being involved all that much.

Corvette will get non Corvette buyers into a dealership. Camaro won't. They don't even spend much money advertising Corvette so they're definitely not going to spend it on something that MIGHT get people in the door. They're going to spend it on something that WILL get people in the door like full size trucks, SUVs and now....EV.

[zaimer]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

Yep, there's no amount of advertising that will help this car sell more units. At least, not in an amount that it would be viable for GM.

The market is just different now. It's different than it was 30 years ago when Camaros were also small and had terrible trunk(rear hatch) space. People loved them back then but we're in different times now. Tastes and trends change and unfortunately, new sports/muscle cars aren't really on the masses radar.

How many kids or teenagers do you think want a Camaro now compared to 25+ years ago? I almost never see a young person looking at Camaros and back in the late 80s and early 90s, fast cars is all we would talk about in school. We would always annoy the local dealership folks by going to gawking at the Camaros and Corvettes.
These cars just aren't on most kids radar and they're not dreaming about owning one some day.

It makes me wonder how much of the blame lands on technology. One simple idea would be that people now are desensitized to cars, to some degree. I'm referring to the accessibility or even knowledge of what is out there for vehicles. You can find thousands of photos and/or videos or basically any car within seconds, at fingers reach for most of us. That has to kill the excitement of seeing (what was once more of a rare thing) because, frankly, it is boring when compared to others. I.e. seeing a Camaro vs a Ferrari.

Another, simple, but logical idea would be the change of how the younger generation spends money. Again, technology is everywhere... laptops, tablets, smartwatches, smart speakers, etc. You can drop $1K on a phone without blinking an eye. That is not including the accessories for the phone, or the music subscriptions, or the additional money wasted on things like Amazon because it is so easy to spend money. I would assume that would place a huge burden on the financials of even thinking about getting into a sports car? This is another discussion, but think about the prices as well. The increase of car prices, gas prices, repair prices (again, tech makes things more expensive)... but the pay (minimum wage) in relation has gotten worse.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

IMO No. 3 has a point but at the same time, I feel like it's not anything good marketing couldn't turn around.

Literally, make ads targeting visibility. People question it? You answer it back. Throw in some witty jokes. "Heh you can still see hot guys and girls and that's really all that matters." Also mention the convertibles.

Or IDK, just more media presence in general. Transformers may have run its course but there are other good action flicks out there to bank on.

They need to get back to basics. Sex sells. Whether it’s 1969 or 2021, sex still sells and always will. Don’t need to show burning rubber and someone slamming through the gears or doing a burnout, just a hot chick in a bikini washing it with the announcer going “the 2022 Chevy Camaro. God Bless America”

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by zaimer

It makes me wonder how much of the blame lands on technology. One simple idea would be that people now are desensitized to cars, to some degree. I'm referring to the accessibility or even knowledge of what is out there for vehicles. You can find thousands of photos and/or videos or basically any car within seconds, at fingers reach for most of us. That has to kill the excitement of seeing (what was once more of a rare thing) because, frankly, it is boring when compared to others. I.e. seeing a Camaro vs a Ferrari.

Another, simple, but logical idea would be the change of how the younger generation spends money. Again, technology is everywhere... laptops, tablets, smartwatches, smart speakers, etc. You can drop $1K on a phone without blinking an eye. That is not including the accessories for the phone, or the music subscriptions, or the additional money wasted on things like Amazon because it is so easy to spend money. I would assume that would place a huge burden on the financials of even thinking about getting into a sports car? This is another discussion, but think about the prices as well. The increase of car prices, gas prices, repair prices (again, tech makes things more expensive)... but the pay (minimum wage) in relation has gotten worse.

I think technology is definitely a factor. Technology can be expensive and there's a lot of it.

Most folks that bought them back then were buying their primary mode of transportation. Now, it seems like a lot folks that buy them aren't daily driving them or they have something else they can drive. You didn't have the luxury of a weekend car back then. Perhaps because people that are buying 1 car value the space and utility of an SUV over having a fun, fast car.

I don't know if I would say people are desensitized to cars due to the internet. Back then we all went to printed media for info and pics of cars and if you were a car person, you had ALL of the magazines. lol

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

Corvette will get non Corvette buyers into a dealership. Camaro won't. They don't even spend much money advertising Corvette so they're definitely not going to spend it on something that MIGHT get people in the door. They're going to spend it on something that WILL get people in the door like full size trucks, SUVs and now....EV.

Yeah I guess Camaro is the red-haired middle child here. I was just thinking out loud.

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

They need to get back to basics. Sex sells. Whether it’s 1969 or 2021, sex still sells and always will. Don’t need to show burning rubber and someone slamming through the gears or doing a burnout, just a hot chick in a bikini washing it with the announcer going “the 2022 Chevy Camaro. God Bless America”

Nowadays that can be a bit risky, but at the same time, no one in their right mind cares about what SJW thinks anyway. No risks, no gain.

And heh I thought this ad is pretty funny and effective.

https://youtu.be/Us0a93bPPDQ

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

I don't know if I would say people are desensitized to cars due to the internet. Back then we all went to printed media for info and pics of cars and if you were a car person, you had ALL of the magazines. lol

Well if you think about why Internet porn is a problem, you could see what zaimer's point is.

Nobody complained about the "forbidden" tapes/magazines back in the days because those were still somewhat difficult to get your hands on. Magazines cost money to buy. Internet is cheap and you just have so much at your fingertips so yeah it indeed takes away some of that exclusivity of owning a nice car.

[cellsafemode]

You can easily see why the niche pony car market is shrinking.

Cars all got much faster, people didn't get better at driving and roads got more crowded.

You no longer have a need to buy a 2 door pony car for fast driving because nearly all cars can go really fast. So absent of that performance issue, it's a lot harder to justify the other compromises.

end of story really.

but if discussing why camaro sells so much less than mustang/charger/challenger etc, i think you only need to look at what is unique about the camaro's situation. Chevy has the corvette in this spot for marketing and their soul. The other oem's, the cars in question are there. Not so for chevy and that translates to what the market sees.

i think the camaro has 3 possible fates.
1. it becomes a CUV.
2. it gets cancelled and corvette expands down a bit to carry the ex-v8-camaro market
3. Corvette expands up and leaves the 50k market entirely and becomes a super car only... leaving the camaro to take center stage in chevy
4. Chevy keeps the status quo

in order of likelihood i think.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You can easily see why the niche pony car market is shrinking.

Cars all got much faster, people didn't get better at driving and roads got more crowded.

You no longer have a need to buy a 2 door pony car for fast driving because nearly all cars can go really fast. So absent of that performance issue, it's a lot harder to justify the other compromises.

end of story really.

but if discussing why camaro sells so much less than mustang/charger/challenger etc, i think you only need to look at what is unique about the camaro's situation. Chevy has the corvette in this spot for marketing and their soul. The other oem's, the cars in question are there. Not so for chevy and that translates to what the market sees.

i think the camaro has 3 possible fates.
1. it becomes a CUV.
2. it gets cancelled and corvette expands down a bit to carry the ex-v8-camaro market
3. Corvette expands up and leaves the 50k market entirely and becomes a super car only... leaving the camaro to take center stage in chevy
4. Chevy keeps the status quo

in order of likelihood i think.

I don't think 1 is a realistic option, whatever SUV/CUV GM might come out with is not a Camaro, just like the Mach-E is not a Mustang. It would be so easy to "fix" all that is suboptimal about the Camaro, but option 2 is looking more likely at this point.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I don't think 1 is a realistic option, whatever SUV/CUV GM might come out with is not a Camaro, just like the Mach-E is not a Mustang. It would be so easy to "fix" all that is suboptimal about the Camaro, but option 2 is looking more likely at this point.

whether you think it's a camaro is irrelevant if chevy labels it one... they decide what is and isn't a camaro. If we did, some of us would have the same opinion about what got labeled a camaro in 2010+

i think the mach-e mustang is going to sell significantly better than the camaro currently is.

I think chevy would be hard pressed to not follow mach-e's lead.

edit: though the main difference is, i dont see ford not making the 2 door car form of the mustang - so there is some grounds to call the mach-e version not a real mustang, but in the case of chevy, option 1 is written there because it would exist in-place-of the 2 door car version - not along side it. there would be no other version to point to as the "real" one.