[Stevezx900]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

Imagine if the ZL1 had the LT5.

LT5 is not necessary. Just upgraded Supercharger (Maggie) and few other upgrades, I’m pretty sure the ZLE will be at the 800 WHP mark. That will destroy a GT500 cftp for around a 10-15k investment.

That’s the way I see it. I would still save 30-40 grand and have a faster car.

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by Stevezx900

LT5 is not necessary. Just upgraded Supercharger (Maggie) and few other upgrades, I’m pretty sure the ZLE will be at the 800 WHP mark. That will destroy a GT500 cftp for around a 10-15k investment.

That’s the way I see it. I would still save 30-40 grand and have a faster car.

They already did something similar for the blackwing cars for a whopping 18hp. They are not going to put a bigger blower on the ZL1's LT4.

[MATEOLT1SS]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

Everyone's forgetting that the GT500 is not just $18,000 more than a ZLE. Most people are buying the GT500 with ADM's of anywhere from $5k - $20k over sticker.

Put that into equation and the GT500 value quotient becomes pathetic. Sad part is you are still stuck with a porker of a S550 chassis with some go fast bits.

Facts! I'm staring at one right in front of me at work (I work for a ford dealer) that's marked up 15k. Total is $97,790 for a non carbon package car.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by MATEOLT1SS

Facts! I'm staring at one right in front of me at work (I work for a ford dealer) that's marked up 15k. Total is $97,790 for a non carbon package car.

That makes me feel even better about my '21 ZL1 build at under msrp. What a bargain in comparison!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

That makes me feel even better about my '21 ZL1 build at under msrp. What a bargain in comparison!

I'm starting to wonder if your account got hacked...

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm starting to wonder if your account got hacked...

Hahaha! I saw the light. No doubt even the base GT500 is awesome, but not $30k+ more awesome than a ZL1. BTW, it was supposedly built last week, but I haven't received a VIN yet. Hopefully Monday...

[JK001]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

For sure, but that one will be more of a track car rather than a street car. Center lock wheels, while cool, are a pain for a street driven car. Might be too stiff (similar to the ZLE) for the street too.

It will be a bad ass track car though.

The P-cars are amazing and I hear you on smaller and lighter. Tracking them is an expensive endeavor, atleast more expensive than SS/ZL1 1LE; no track warranty, small mods will also void any street warranty as service techs check them over these cars very scrutinizing.
Its definitely a niche machine, I've been through this calculation several times over....
At the end of day, I realize that a brand or spec sheets dont define what I want to drive, rather how the car makes me feel

[metros11]

I'm just going to keep saying this... The GT500 is an awesome car, for sure. But if 3 year advantage on development, 100 HP, and $15k higher sticker over ZLE only gets you 4/10 of a second on a long track with big straights, is this really a win?!?

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by metros11

I'm just going to keep saying this... The GT500 is an awesome car, for sure. But if 3 year advantage on development, 100 HP, and $15k higher sticker over ZLE only gets you 4/10 of a second on a long track with big straights, is this really a win?!?

They do not seem to be selling very well, so I am guessing no. To your point, all this just shows how great the Alpha is. Less money, less power, just as fast.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

The gt500 cftp did well as expected, but keep things in perspective. C7 z06 did that in 2015 with a manual trans iirc (could be wrong) and it beat the cheaper, lower powered, and older zl1 1le on a relatively big track by 4/10ths. Impressive but keep things in perspective. I think most people that give the gt500 a fair shake can admit that for a few laps it's capable of setting some very fast laps, most impressively considering it's weight.

As an m6 fan, the most impressive thing of note between the gt500 cftp and zl1 1le lap times here is the 2018 m6 zl1 1le imo. 2:45.7 and driven by a journalist if memory serves.

Food for thought. The lt5, along with some extra aero, improved on the lt4 in the c7 platform by about 5 seconds.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

It's also nice to see all NA v8 versions of the Camaro and Mustang (gt350, ss 1le, gt pp2) absolutely mollywhop the 2021 Supra 3.0. So many idiots online talk out of their ass when it comes to this car and it's track prowess.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

The gt500 cftp did well as expected, but keep things in perspective. C7 z06 did that in 2015 with a manual trans iirc (could be wrong) and it beat the cheaper, lower powered, and older zl1 1le on a relatively big track by 4/10ths. Impressive but keep things in perspective. I think most people that give the gt500 a fair shake can admit that for a few laps it's capable of setting some very fast laps, most impressively considering it's weight.

As an m6 fan, the most impressive thing of note between the gt500 cftp and zl1 1le lap times here is the 2018 m6 zl1 1le imo. 2:45.7 and driven by a journalist if memory serves.

Food for thought. The lt5, along with some extra aero, improved on the lt4 in the c7 platform by about 5 seconds.

I think we all agree that it is a fast car. It's just that for the money and for what you get in options and features, it is not fast enough. It is not fast for what you are expected to pay.

Now here's the other thing. Is it possible that GM pushed the ZL1 and ZLE to the edge of the performance line for this price range? I mean, perhaps for these Pony Cars, the ZL1/ZLE is soo far advanced in performance that squeezing even more performance comes with a substantial increase in price. I mean, maybe Ford simply just could not match the handling of those cars and HAD to throw that 760 HP at it so they could make up for it in power. Maybe Ford HAD to put that price tag on it based on what they put into R&D and everything they threw at it. Maybe they realized all this and that is why it took that extra year just to get close to the ZL1/ZLE.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think we all agree that it is a fast car. It's just that for the money and for what you get in options and features, it is not fast enough. It is not fast for what you are expected to pay.

Now here's the other thing. Is it possible that GM pushed the ZL1 and ZLE to the edge of the performance line for this price range? I mean, perhaps for these Pony Cars, the ZL1/ZLE is soo far advanced in performance that squeezing even more performance comes with a substantial increase in price. I mean, maybe Ford simply just could not match the handling of those cars and HAD to throw that 760 HP at it so they could make up for it in power. Maybe Ford HAD to put that price tag on it based on what they put into R&D and everything they threw at it. Maybe they realized all this and that is why it took that extra year just to get close to the ZL1/ZLE.

You could be spot on. I think it is more reflective of what it costs to make the S550 as fast as the Alpha.

Its an inferior chassis, and thus takes a lot more money and R&D to get it to catch up.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think we all agree that it is a fast car. It's just that for the money and for what you get in options and features, it is not fast enough. It is not fast for what you are expected to pay.

Now here's the other thing. Is it possible that GM pushed the ZL1 and ZLE to the edge of the performance line for this price range? I mean, perhaps for these Pony Cars, the ZL1/ZLE is soo far advanced in performance that squeezing even more performance comes with a substantial increase in price. I mean, maybe Ford simply just could not match the handling of those cars and HAD to throw that 760 HP at it so they could make up for it in power. Maybe Ford HAD to put that price tag on it based on what they put into R&D and everything they threw at it. Maybe they realized all this and that is why it took that extra year just to get close to the ZL1/ZLE.

Very good points.

Also don't forget that the ZL1/ZLE had the advantage of sharing the platform with the CTS/ATS and engines with the Corvette. That's a huge chunk of development costs spread out across several models which probably let them put more into the specifics of chassis tuning and suspension and stuff like that. The GT500 on the other hand everything was just for Mustang. It had nothing to share those costs with. DCT just for the GT500, Predator 5.2 just for the GT500, etc etc. That is a situation where the "parts bin car" has a serious advantage.