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Old 03-11-2019, 05:46 AM   #15
Gunkk
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HCW is a silica sealant

Based on composition (mostly water + low % silica suspension + low % solvent + <5% siloxane) I put Meguiars HCW into the same class as Reload.

MSDS attached for the curious.
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File Type: pdf Meguiars HCW MSDS G190526EU-United-Kingdom-SDS.pdf (156.4 KB, 39 views)
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunkk View Post
Based on composition (mostly water + low % silica suspension + low % solvent + <5% siloxane) I put Meguiars HCW into the same class as Reload.

MSDS attached for the curious.
Wonder what magic it has to beat Armor that bad,(of course we will never know) which has 10% SiO2, even when the guy let Armor cure as recommended it held up badly after a wash.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:49 PM   #17
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Applying Reload without prepping the surface first will not allow proper bonding to the surface.
It's durability will be compromised.
It cannot bond to any oil, or any residues left from claying.

Reload should only be applied to a properly prepped surface, wearing nitrile gloves, using two towels, one to spread, one to wipe excess. Improper prep/application will result in diminished durability.

I like all the Material Safety Data Sheet information, but for comparing the durability of the two, the surface should be prepped to get an accurate comparison. You prepped the side for the Adams product, but did not prep for Reload?
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:03 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Joe M 2012 2SS View Post
...but for comparing the durability of the two, the surface should be prepped to get an accurate comparison.
Define: “should be prepped” please. My prep is what I considered adequate to meet the requirements in the directions on the products. Each has different requirements, and I did what they said. Nowhere does it require full paint correction on either, for example. Can one do so? Of course.

If someone wants to take it further in a repeat test with a full monty correction, please do so in a new thread. I’m always interested to learn new and better ways of doing things to save time and get a long lasting result for the least effort on my DD. My ZL1 is a show car so I get to indulge my perfectionist tendencies in my own special way there.

As I said in the post above the clay I used is a nanoskin sponge to remove adsorbed solid contaminants. I do not bother with traditional clay putty. Many are abrasive, difficult to handle, and oily. The clay lube was the same Adams wash I used on the car. Nanoskin’s recommended nano shock lube has up to 2% siloxane in it, so using that would likely leave a residue that could very much screw up this test. But in my rest the car had no more residue after the clay than the wash and rinse water itself. Adams is particularly good at leaving no residue whatsoever on paint after a wash.

Baggie test was smooth. Is the paint oxidized? Probably a little. Is it free of haze and generally in good shape? Yep. Did I spend 20+ hours and a couple hondos on equipment and product to “professionally” cut and buff and polish? ummm no. I have no interest in polishing and degreasing my DD at 7 yrs and 77k miles (I put PPF and EXO on my ZL1 to avoid exactly that hassle).

Last year I got 3 months of service life with Reload using this prep method. I define service life to be sustaining a clean surface clean tap water contact angle over 90 degrees on a majority of my hood. Doors and rockers last longer as they don’t see the same amount of FL sunlight and acidic tree drippings. In fact a few spots on the sides were still a bit hydrophobic after nearly a year, but I don’t count that other than a bonus for me.

As to towels, many people are perfectly capable of controlling a 16”x16” 500 gsm MF towel so as to keep wet and dry apart. Especially when using reload as a drying aid. And yes I do and did swap to fresh towels/sides when they got loaded up or wet. A Genesis sedan is too big for just two towels, I usually need at least four to do the whole car. My towels are washed alone w/o dryer sheets or other fabric softeners.

One might take a comment like that to suggest that I did not follow directions therefore rendering my test invalid. But after reviewing the directions for Reload (again) here, I don’t see that being the case.

https://www.carpro-us.com/protection...-reload-100ml/

Please do continue to poke at this straw man and make suggestions for improvements. I am always eager to learn a new or better or easier way.

So to summarize...
Reload does not require clay or alcohol wipe, so I didn’t do it. Getting up to 3 months of life from a spray and wipe drying aid may be a compelling choice versus the extra work to clay and dry and alcohol prep each panel prior to Adams ceramic spray.

That’s the entire point of this test, to answer the question: Does the extra prep and quadruple the product cost result in double the service life in a real world test on real world garaged daily driver that’s washed more by FL summer rainfall than with tap water?

We shall see...
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:13 PM   #19
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This is a great thread with a lot of good information. So many of these things are over blown by the manufacture, we all run out to get the newest product, I still think a lot of them may be different in make up but they gloss the same and they wear the same. I've done so many dside-by-side test over the years, on autogeek and autopia, and here....... and I'm always amazed at how there is very little difference between the products that go head to head after a few months. In fact, the new characteristic that I look for is not gloss or durability, (as they're all good), it's ease-of-use. Some are definitely a lot easier than others.

But now back to the discussion :

I personally think if you're going to look at just durability as a test, that an IPA wipe is all it's necessary. If you're trying to get gloss and evaluate that, then I think it should be something more aggressive like clay/ polish/ipa. But just the IPA should do away with The surface contaminants so the reload can lock, or lock any other product for that matter. I know some say IPA does not leave the surface for Pristine/ virgin, but I've never found that to be the case.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:24 AM   #20
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In the directions in the link for Reload application, it states that two separate towels should be used. One for spreading, and one for excess removal.
Corey also mentions that he prefers the Microfiber Madness Crazy Pile towels for this purpose.

After using Reload for the last 5 years, and trying a plethora of different towels, I'd have to agree with him. However these towels are not 100% necessary, but they are the best towels I have ever used for any type of sealant/wax excess removal. Other towels will work. These just work better.

If your using only one towel without wearing nitrile gloves, oils from your hands are getting on the towel. When you flip it over to wipe excess, you are now wiping oil on the surface, mixing it in with the uncured Reload (Reload takes 1 hour to cure), and compromising the bond.

Where it states "tips" in the link about Reload, it states that the surface must be completely free of oils, solvents, or waxes. Just washing and drying the car will not leave the surface free of these. It must be prepped properly.

You can use IPA or a prepping solution to remove these. IPA dissolves them on the surface. I don't use IPA, I use Carpro Eraser. It lifts them off the surface, so they can be wiped away. I've also tried a ton of towels for this purpose, and the RC Everest 1100's are the best I've used.

Since the surface has to be absolutely oil free, wearing nitrile gloves is imperative to achieve this, because oils from your hands will get on the towels, and as you flip them to fresh sides, you will be redistributing oils back on the surface.

Regardless of what type of protection you are applying to clear coat paint, prepping the surface with IPA or a prepping solution will maximize durability, because if no oils, solvents, or old waxes/sealants are present on the surface, the product will have the best surface to bond to, with nothing coming between it and the surface, or being mixed in with it.

Claying if needed, will also add to maximizing the durability of protection products. Like you, I do not use regular clay anymore, unless the clear coat paint is super soft. I have been using my SM Arnold Speedy prep towel for years. The benefits of it vs. clay make it a "no brainer" alternative. Only fine grade should be used, as medium grade clay alternatives are very abrasive, and will scratch even hard clear coat.

You can skip these steps, and as you have already seen, the Reload lasts about 3 months.
It has been my experience in my use with Reload on my ungaraged daily driver to get 5-6 months of durability by prepping it first. Durability will vary based upon what type of conditions the paint is exposed to.
A garaged car for example, will usually have longer durability, a car that is exposed to a lot of rain will have less, a car that is driven in the snow and gets a lot of Magnesium Chloride on it from the roads will have less, etc.

But in all situations, a prepped surface will always have longer durability vs. a non-prepped.

I'm not stating this to "toot my own horn", it's just been my experience in 35 years of detailing vehicles.

If you want 3 months of protection from a silica based product doing no prep, I would suggest Carpro Hydrofoam. All you have to do is wash the car with it, rinse off, do a pooling rinse to remove excess water, dry, and your done.

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Last edited by Joe M 2012 2SS; 03-12-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:55 AM   #21
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I will definitely try the glove and alcohol wipe w/ Reload next time to see if there's a difference.

Good points and good tips, thank you for sharing them!
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:47 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Gunkk View Post
I will definitely try the glove and alcohol wipe w/ Reload next time to see if there's a difference.

Good points and good tips, thank you for sharing them!
I appreciate the MSDS information. Nice to see what products are actually made of, and what percentages of active ingredients they contain .


Interested to see the durability of the new Adams product. Looking forward to future posts.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:17 AM   #23
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I appreciate the MSDS information. Nice to see what products are actually made of, and what percentages of active ingredients they contain .


Interested to see the durability of the new Adams product. Looking forward to future posts.
It doesn't show active ingredients, just specific ingredients required by law to be disclosed.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:53 PM   #24
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Quick question for a ceramic newbie, does this take the place of wax? Or do you wax over it? I am just wondering how you cover up some of those very fine swirls and scratches cars get?
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:47 PM   #25
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Quick question for a ceramic newbie, does this take the place of wax? Or do you wax over it? I am just wondering how you cover up some of those very fine swirls and scratches cars get?
Are you talking coating or spray on?
Both. You can wax over it, or just leave it. But if you maintain it, it will last longer. Yes you can still get swirls and paint chips with any ceramic coating or spray
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:42 PM   #26
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Quick question for a ceramic newbie, does this take the place of wax? Or do you wax over it? I am just wondering how you cover up some of those very fine swirls and scratches cars get?
Yes basically all of these new coatings more or less replace the water repellency and gloss effects of the old school liquid and paste waxes. The spray and wipe sealants are much easier to apply and last much longer. You can put traditional waxes over these spray on sealants and coatings, but IMO there is really no great benefit from doing so.

None of these coatings and sprays can fix swirls and scratches. There is really nothing that will cover them up. Instead you polish them out using a dual action polisher and the correct pad and polish.

What many of the new generation of coatings do offer is extreme low surface energy. This is what makes water bead up and roll off easy. It also makes the paint more resistant to adsorption of dirt and dust. Then in some cases a rinse with a hose will remove most of the dirt. This means less scrubbing with wash rags/mits/sponges, thus less grinding and dragging that dirt across the paint, less swirls.

It’s The Museum Rule: the less you touch a thing, the longer it lasts. If you never touch the paint, you never scratch the paint. The more easily you can clean your car with the least amount of contact, the less you scratch and swirl the paint. Durable superhydrophobic coatings like Gtechniq EXO and Fenlab Topcoat achieve these goals remarkably well: water will lift dust off and carry it away. The spray-n-wipe sealants also perform well in this regard.

At the NMCA @ Bradenton Motorsports park last wekend I watched a wax company put wax on a pickup truck. They let it sit, wax drying in the sun for a few hours, all the while collecting dust from the passing crowds walking by in the dry dusty grass. Then they took a dry low pile cheap microfiber towel and aggressively rubbed and buffed it back off. Grinding all that dust into the paint. Getting white dusty wax residue everywhere.

I remember doing all that insanity myself, hours of work on my very first car 34 years ago.

Today I can get a better looking and longer lasting result with Carpro Reload in about 10 minutes when I wash & dry my car.

So can you.

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Old 03-14-2019, 10:02 PM   #27
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Yes basically all of these new coatings more or less replace the water repellency and gloss effects of the old school liquid and paste waxes. The spray and wipe sealants are much easier to apply and last much longer. You can put traditional waxes over these spray on sealants and coatings, but IMO there is really no great benefit from doing so.

None of these coatings and sprays can fix swirls and scratches. There is really nothing that will cover them up. Instead you polish them out using a dual action polisher and the correct pad and polish.

What many of the new generation of coatings do offer is extreme low surface energy. This is what makes water bead up and roll off easy. It also makes the paint more resistant to adsorption of dirt and dust. Then in some cases a rinse with a hose will remove most of the dirt. This means less scrubbing with wash rags/mits/sponges, thus less grinding and dragging that dirt across the paint, less swirls.

Itís The Museum Rule: the less you touch a thing, the longer it lasts. If you never touch the paint, you never scratch the paint. The more easily you can clean your car with the least amount of contact, the less you scratch and swirl the paint. Durable superhydrophobic coatings like Gtechniq EXO and Fenlab Topcoat achieve these goals remarkably well: water will lift dust off and carry it away. The spray-n-wipe sealants also perform well in this regard.

At the NMCA @ Bradenton Motorsports park last wekend I watched a wax company put wax on a pickup truck. They let it sit, wax drying in the sun for a few hours, all the while collecting dust from the passing crowds walking by in the dry dusty grass. Then they took a dry low pile cheap microfiber towel and aggressively rubbed and buffed it back off. Grinding all that dust into the paint. Getting white dusty wax residue everywhere.

I remember doing all that insanity myself, hours of work on my very first car 34 years ago.

Today I can get a better looking and longer lasting result with Carpro Reload in about 10 minutes when I wash & dry my car.

So can you.
Wow thatís truly amazing. I guess Iím so old school itís hard for me to fathom spraying on a coating and not having to wax and it work the same way. I definitely want to learn more and do it myself to my Camaro and my Trans Am this spring. This has been very helpful. Thanks!
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:15 AM   #28
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You're very

re: Spraying on a coating...

A comment on technique. With Spray-n-wipe Si02 sealants: spray the sealant directly onto the towel to moisten/lubricate, then wipe the product onto the car. Buff off with a clean dry towel.

You can spray the car if you really want to, but I get much less mess/overspray and don't have to go back and clean off areas I've already done, finishing much faster when I don't spray the car.

There are tons of opinions and youtube vids out there on technique. Try it one way, try it another. Do what works for you.
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