[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

i doubt this kind of thing is going to get better until they make killing people in a car thru any act that is breaking an existing law 1st degree murder with a deadly weapon. prosecute, win and no chance of getting off. And instantly make any participants in a road-take-over such as this, illegal with social media sites all banning such videos and removing them.

would be interesting to see which part of that makes the most impact, but given the current generation, i'm betting it's not being able to post your videos about it so everyone can see.

You can’t law people into making the right decisions.

[Crushin_LT1]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

i doubt this kind of thing is going to get better until they make killing people in a car thru any act that is breaking an existing law 1st degree murder with a deadly weapon. prosecute, win and no chance of getting off. And instantly make any participants in a road-take-over such as this, illegal with social media sites all banning such videos and removing them.

would be interesting to see which part of that makes the most impact, but given the current generation, i'm betting it's not being able to post your videos about it so everyone can see.

We already have laws against this, any additional laws will just be misused and abused. It is part of the reason why criminal law reform is so necessary, but will never make it through.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

You can’t law people into making the right decisions.

You can scare most of them though. Which is what the entire system relies on.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by Crushin_LT1

We already have laws against this, any additional laws will just be misused and abused. It is part of the reason why criminal law reform is so necessary, but will never make it through.

i wasn't suggesting brand new laws, i was suggesting changing the repercussions for existing ones so they behaved like mentioned.

Currently, if you want someone dead in this country, the absolute best way to do it is with a car. You barely get a slap on the wrist half of the time (some dont get charged at all). But it almost never leads to any hard time like killing someone any other way would.

Yet, driving a car should require far more responsibility from the driver than most anything else because of how easy it is to do some perm damage to other people. Not be treated as if the driver has less.

edit: i think the liability of the driver for what their vehicle does should be so high that it scares many people from even risking it. pushing them towards ride-hiring services and public transportation. but i fully suspect we'll see tattle-tale transponders utilized and mandated on all registered vehicles at some point in the near future for public safety. And that will quickly put an end (mostly) to such stuff - and make driving probably rather boring.

[Crushin_LT1]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

i wasn't suggesting brand new laws, i was suggesting changing the repercussions for existing ones so they behaved like mentioned.

Currently, if you want someone dead in this country, the absolute best way to do it is with a car. You barely get a slap on the wrist half of the time (some dont get charged at all). But it almost never leads to any hard time like killing someone any other way would.

Yet, driving a car should require far more responsibility from the driver than most anything else because of how easy it is to do some perm damage to other people. Not be treated as if the driver has less.

Understood, I will cheers to that. So many people happily say how bad of a driver they are, its terrible.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

You can scare most of them though. Which is what the entire system relies on.

L

O

L

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

i wasn't suggesting brand new laws, i was suggesting changing the repercussions for existing ones so they behaved like mentioned.

Currently, if you want someone dead in this country, the absolute best way to do it is with a car. You barely get a slap on the wrist half of the time (some dont get charged at all). But it almost never leads to any hard time like killing someone any other way would.

Yet, driving a car should require far more responsibility from the driver than most anything else because of how easy it is to do some perm damage to other people. Not be treated as if the driver has less.

edit: i think the liability of the driver for what their vehicle does should be so high that it scares many people from even risking it. pushing them towards ride-hiring services and public transportation. but i fully suspect we'll see tattle-tale transponders utilized and mandated on all registered vehicles at some point in the near future for public safety. And that will quickly put an end (mostly) to such stuff - and make driving probably rather boring.

Originally Posted by Crushin_LT1

Understood, I will cheers to that. So many people happily say how bad of a driver they are, its terrible.

The cognitive dissidence is strong with you two.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

L

O

L

minimum sentencing (be them jail time or fines) wouldn't exist if the intention wasn't to make people afraid of those consequences.

obviously you'll get idiots doing idiot things regardless of the laws and consequences, but those idiots are less likely to do such things if nobody is there to watch them because those less-idiotic people are afraid of those penalties and they're treated harsher and the popular social media sites take such videos down and suspend accounts that post/link them.

Or those idiots who are driving are taken off the road sooner for less dramatically bad infractions.

Or their cars are all monitored automatically all the time and cops show up before they have a chance to do anything

etc. You can't use laws to make people smarter, but if you can change the behavior of most, that's still better than nothing. Until they make some kind of license for raising kids and the ability to throw away bad ones (parents or kids) ...that's basically the tools we have.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by gtfoxy

The cognitive dissidence is strong with you two.

you dont seem to understand the goal of such laws.

They're not there to stop people. They're there to make people less likely to risk something in the first place. It doesn't have to be 100% effective to be worth having.

look at speeding. Most people speed in various situations. but how much do those people speed? A vast majority are fine speeding 1-5mph over the limit. But that population decreases in size from 5-10 and this pattern continues as you go higher. Why? Not because of the speed being scary or their cars not capable. Because the perceived penalty for doing so if caught.

or look at dui's. Even while drunk, most people go out of their way to plan not to drive themselves because of the much harsher penalties for doing so than in decades past.

People are reckless in cars because the penalties are weak and it's super easy to do. They tend to always favor the driver in a way that suggests their poor decisions and/or skill shouldn't be judged on a scale equivalent to say, playing with a loaded gun in a crowd of people. The word accident in of itself is a misnomer used to excuse crappy drivers doing stupid things more than what it implies.

I think if more people were afraid of the liability involved with driving, you'd get far less people driving themselves and the ones left would be really good drivers and really stupid ones. Which is still a better combination than current.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

minimum sentencing (be them jail time or fines) wouldn't exist if the intention wasn't to make people afraid of those consequences.

obviously you'll get idiots doing idiot things regardless of the laws and consequences, but those idiots are less likely to do such things if nobody is there to watch them because those less-idiotic people are afraid of those penalties and they're treated harsher and the popular social media sites take such videos down and suspend accounts that post/link them.

Or those idiots who are driving are taken off the road sooner for less dramatically bad infractions.

Or their cars are all monitored automatically all the time and cops show up before they have a chance to do anything

etc. You can't use laws to make people smarter, but if you can change the behavior of most, that's still better than nothing. Until they make some kind of license for raising kids and the ability to throw away bad ones (parents or kids) ...that's basically the tools we have.

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

you dont seem to understand the goal of such laws.

They're not there to stop people. They're there to make people less likely to risk something in the first place. It doesn't have to be 100% effective to be worth having.

look at speeding. Most people speed in various situations. but how much do those people speed? A vast majority are fine speeding 1-5mph over the limit. But that population decreases in size from 5-10 and this pattern continues as you go higher. Why? Not because of the speed being scary or their cars not capable. Because the perceived penalty for doing so if caught.

or look at dui's. Even while drunk, most people go out of their way to plan not to drive themselves because of the much harsher penalties for doing so than in decades past.

People are reckless in cars because the penalties are weak and it's super easy to do. They tend to always favor the driver in a way that suggests their poor decisions and/or skill shouldn't be judged on a scale equivalent to say, playing with a loaded gun in a crowd of people. The word accident in of itself is a misnomer used to excuse crappy drivers doing stupid things more than what it implies.

I think if more people were afraid of the liability involved with driving, you'd get far less people driving themselves and the ones left would be really good drivers and really stupid ones. Which is still a better combination than current.

Nope, you still don’t get it.

Let’s take DUI’s for your example; There used to not really be any enforcement of that. Then there was this big socially engineered push to do exactly what you are talking about.

But guess what, people still do it. Even after multiple suspensions they still get caught driving, & drinking. They don’t care & no law is going to change that.

Obviously in your mind you associate actions with legal consequences & think others do as well, so your construct is to push your ideals thinking it will matter, but in reality it doesn’t really matter to people that simply don’t care. No law is going to change that about anything. Period.

Let’s look at it from another perspective: You want people to do the right thing because muh law. I want people to do the right thing because it’s the right thing.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by zaimer

Does anyone want to comment on how there was a car basically parked (with people standing around) in the middle of the highway? I'm not trying to diminish the severity of what happened, or condoning the actions of the driver of the Camaro, but come on. This was an all around recipe for disaster. Sad to hear of the lives affected, and unfortunate for the car.

It wasn't on the highway. It was a side road, service road or whatever you want to call it. He could have been slowing down to turn into the parking lot. There are lot of businesses in that lot. I've seen a lot of folks try to blame the guy that got hit and that's just idiotic. Someone going about their business at a normal speed gets hit and y'all wanna shift blame from the asshole going over 100mph? GTFO

This is the location based on the signs in the picture.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

i doubt this kind of thing is going to get better until they make killing people in a car thru any act that is breaking an existing law 1st degree murder with a deadly weapon. prosecute, win and no chance of getting off. And instantly make any participants in a road-take-over such as this, illegal with social media sites all banning such videos and removing them.

Arguments like this make no sense. We already have the death penalty, yet people keep murdering other people. People go to war, knowing that they might die. The problem is that everyone thinks they will get away with it, and they do for the most part. For every person caught speeding, how many go unpunished? Same thing with texting and driving. You could make the penalty death, people will still do it, they'll do it because they have a reasonable chance of getting away with it, and once they do get away with it, they get normalized to it and they will do it more and more. The idea that if we just make the consequences bad enough, people will stop, is flawed. It doesn't take into account that we don't make long term decisions like that, normalized behavior, human variability and irrational decisions. If humans were a computer...sure.

Although punishment is important, it doesn't deter crime, not to the extent that if you just keep increasing punishment you'll somehow solve problems. Criminals don't sit there and consider that they may go to jail for the rest of their life...maybe some do, but the ones that carry out the crimes don't go through the same rational thought process.

Enforcement and designing the problem out of the system are better solutions. Enforcement like speed cameras, more unmarked cars, etc. In the past, they tend to place these things in the areas with the most accidents/deaths. Maybe in these cases infiltrating these groups, undercover ops. There needs to be a reasonable chance you'll get caught doing something like this, if there isn't, nothing will change.

[95 imp]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

People are reckless in cars because the penalties are weak and it's super easy to do. They tend to always favor the driver in a way that suggests their poor decisions and/or skill shouldn't be judged on a scale equivalent to say, playing with a loaded gun in a crowd of people.

3 counts of vehicular manslaughter/homicide, exhibition of speed, reckless driving, speeding, driving too fast for conditions, and street racing are all the obvious charges. There are probably more.

Doubt he's getting getting off with a fix-it ticket/warning. Especially with the video...

Cars, like guns, are dangerous weapons. And if you don't think of the possibilities that can occur, nor do it in a "safe/reasonably safe" environment,
and calculate that risk, these things will happen. More so with today's generation and their lack of respect for their fellow man and lack of common sense.

Any idiot who stands 5' away from a 2 ton projectile doing 100+ MPH is just asking die. Anyone who drives a vehicle like that is asking to kill himself/others. We've all seen cars racing down the shoulder and/or weaving thru traffic just to prove they can win.

As King said, cars were actually more dangerous back in the 70's. The difference between now and then, as a general rule, are the people who drove them.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

Currently, if you want someone dead in this country, the absolute best way to do it is with a car. You barely get a slap on the wrist half of the time (some dont get charged at all). But it almost never leads to any hard time like killing someone any other way would.

This is a bizarre statement. If you want someone dead, premeditated 1st degree murder, you are going to be thrown the book, whether it was with a car or not. Your words, "you want someone dead".

Just because someone died doesn't mean that "you wanted someone dead". That's a bizarre stretch.

If the result of your actions is someone died, it may still be your fault. It does not imply you wanted someone dead.

[Petrol Head]

Law abiding people are (for the most part) going to abide by the laws.

Criminals aren't. It goes along with gun control..... sure you can ban the guns, then only law abiding citizens won't have them.

All the laws in the world would not have changed a thing for this idiot in the Camaro to go flying down the street and end up plowing into people.