[tcbracing]

Originally Posted by Bells

People don't come to forums to report "all is well, nothing is broken", so you get a warped view of problems reading the forums.

Totally agree. Data here is very skewed. You will get your occasional "Yeah, I'm not seeing that." but a majority of the people posting on the forums are the ones having issues.

Unlike most people here, being a GM Employee working in Quality, I have access to tons of data on Warranty/Reliability data and if I had ANY concerns that my $50K car was going to have issues, I wouldn't be buying one.

Fact is that every single car maker has issues and all of them have improved tremendously since the '90's (just look at the 2016 JD Power Initial Quality Study showing Chevrolet in the Top 6 and even ahead of Lexus) so your chance of catching a Lemon are about the same for all automakers.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by tcbracing

Totally agree. Data here is very skewed. You will get your occasional "Yeah, I'm not seeing that." but a majority of the people posting on the forums are the ones having issues.

Unlike most people here, being a GM Employee working in Quality, I have access to tons of data on Warranty/Reliability data and if I had ANY concerns that my $50K car was going to have issues, I wouldn't be buying one.

Fact is that every single car maker has issues and all of them have improved tremendously since the '90's (just look at the 2016 JD Power Initial Quality Study showing Chevrolet in the Top 6 and even ahead of Lexus) so your chance of catching a Lemon are about the same for all automakers.

Good points. I think we also need to define "reliability issues". My car had the chipped paint from a misaligned trunk deck lid and the NPP rattle when the valves are closed. Annoying for sure, but I wouldn't refer to either of those as "reliability issues". Even things like the seat recline issue, you get that seat motor/gear fixed and then you pretty much forget about it. Now, if you have to keep replacing the motor then we can refer to the seat as being unreliable in its ability to recline.

Now what about some of the paint issues. Well, that is not a reliability issue, that is a quality control issue. Now, some factory workers will probably argue that the robot that caused the paint issue is unreliable. However, that robot was designed/built by humans, which are notoriously unreliable.

[DeliveryMan]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Good points. I think we also need to define "reliability issues". My car had the chipped paint from a misaligned trunk deck lid and the NPP rattle when the valves are closed. Annoying for sure, but I wouldn't refer to either of those as "reliability issues". Even things like the seat recline issue, you get that seat motor/gear fixed and then you pretty much forget about it. Now, if you have to keep replacing the motor then we can refer to the seat as being unreliable in its ability to recline.

Now what about some of the paint issues. Well, that is not a reliability issue, that is a quality control issue. Now, some factory workers will probably argue that the robot that caused the paint issue is unreliable. However, that robot was designed/built by humans, which are notoriously unreliable.

I hear ya Raptor, some of the things that us Camaro owners find as problems on our cars, the usual person that owns a Focus, CIvic, or Corolla wouldn't even care about. To them those cars are just appliances. On the Camaro6 Forum there have been discussions about dash molding being 1/8" off or the Engine Sound management option disappearing (then reappearing) from the SETTINGS menu.

Most of the ppl that own the econobox automobiles don't pay attention to the details, hell most of them can be missing something or have a minor problem and not even know it....THey still would believe that their cars are "very reliable".

[Sparkgap]

My 16 2SS is no better or worse than any other new car I've owned over the years when it comes to reliability. However, it is ALOT more fun!

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by raptor5244

Good points. I think we also need to define "reliability issues". My car had the chipped paint from a misaligned trunk deck lid and the NPP rattle when the valves are closed. Annoying for sure, but I wouldn't refer to either of those as "reliability issues". Even things like the seat recline issue, you get that seat motor/gear fixed and then you pretty much forget about it. Now, if you have to keep replacing the motor then we can refer to the seat as being unreliable in its ability to recline.

Now what about some of the paint issues. Well, that is not a reliability issue, that is a quality control issue. Now, some factory workers will probably argue that the robot that caused the paint issue is unreliable. However, that robot was designed/built by humans, which are notoriously unreliable.

I completely agree with your take on "reliability", to me this is defined as when I start it, it starts, and it gets me to where I'm going. If doesn't involve a tow truck, it's not a reliability issue.

I will add, that the OP spoke of his "totally reliable" Yaris. There is a little bit of a difference here. Cars like the Camaro, and the SS especially, are built to perform at a high level with tight tolerances. This results in a higher stress level on parts and systems. Combine this with the fact that owners of these cars are driving the car for more than just A to B chores, and yes, we will see some issues arise. I mean, you don't see many Yaris' hanging out at the local drag strip or autocross.

[JDP Sales]

I LOVE this car! I have an appointment with the dealer to look at a few things:

1. Headliner
2. Driver door rubs when closing and needs a little aligning
3. MyLink is a little glitchy (I have learned to work around it for the most part)
4. I can't remember now but there is a list in my car

Anyway, my reason for pointing that out is this: I bought a 1st year run car that I fully knew would potentially have a few quirks. Now, 3600 miles in, i'm getting to deal with some of the known issues.

Life is FULL of surprises. Your car having a minor issue, or even a major one for that matter, shouldn't cause you to throw your hands in the air and sell your car and try and take GM to their grave in the process. Until you yourself can operate on a daily basis PERFECTLY, stop demanding PERFECT from your car. These are machines, built by machines, built by people. STUFF WILL LIKELY HAPPEN! When it does, take a step back, count to ten, get on google and read the reviews of dealership service departsments local to you and pick the one with the best reviews and call and make an appt. Not all dealers are bad. In fact, i've worked for a few that I would be very comfortable sending my own Mother into. If you go to a good store, they will make the repair process efficient and pleasant.

It all starts with us as consumers, not losing our minds when we have a hiccup. Loyalty is a lost art it seems anymore. I've been loyal to GM and they have never led me astray. Having said that, I don't call demanding and screaming either. Its all in how you deal with it, IMO.......

I'll step off my soap box now hahaha

OP, GO BUY ONE!! THEY ARE AWESOME!!

All the best,

Jared Royce
801.545.4215

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

I completely agree with your take on "reliability", to me this is defined as when I start it, it starts, and it gets me to where I'm going. If doesn't involve a tow truck, it's not a reliability issue.

I will add, that the OP spoke of his "totally reliable" Yaris. There is a little bit of a difference here. Cars like the Camaro, and the SS especially, are built to perform at a high level with tight tolerances. This results in a higher stress level on parts and systems. Combine this with the fact that owners of these cars are driving the car for more than just A to B chores, and yes, we will see some issues arise. I mean, you don't see many Yaris' hanging out at the local drag strip or autocross.

Yep. Also, when you look at the typical run of the mill Toyota compact and sedans and even the Lexus sports sedans they use the same engines like forever. I think the Lexus IS350 has been using the same engine since 2005. The Camaros and Corvettes have had LS1, LS2, LS3 and now LT1 in that timeframe. To your point, a lot of these "appliance cars" just have basic powerplants and offer a boring, non-engaging experience. The best feature of one of those cars is that it is dependable transportation.

[jwestm]

Awesome car if you don't need brakes, cause who needs to stop?

Use the nav system or mind the My link system that wont work with apple products and a service process that can't fix any of those issues.

Its amazing.

Best car you will ever own....

It's a fiery death sled waiting for an accident to happen that GM will only fix when the law suits cost more then the repairs

[Quix]

Originally Posted by jwestm

Awesome car if you don't need brakes, cause who needs to stop?

Interesting, don't hear many people complain about the brakes. Maybe you can share the story?

[WTFO]

2018 1SS 6sp - switched out the factory exhaust for a dual MRT axle back so now I can hear my dang car

Worst issue I had was drivability - Mamo Motorsports TB fixed the drivability issue but still have a dead throttle sometimes from who knows what but rapid stop then back on the gas may leave you in the middle of a lane frantically pumping the accelerator waiting for the car to give it back to you - over all so far car has been very good

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by WTFO

2018 1SS 6sp - switched out the factory exhaust for a dual MRT axle back so now I can hear my dang car

Worst issue I had was drivability - Mamo Motorsports TB fixed the drivability issue but still have a dead throttle sometimes from who knows what but rapid stop then back on the gas may leave you in the middle of a lane frantically pumping the accelerator waiting for the car to give it back to you - over all so far car has been very good

I got my '18 1SS 6 spd in August. I am yet to experience this. Yes, the throttle mapping is a little wanky in the up to about 25%.