[Royal Tiger]

Hopefully it gets a far better interior.

The CTS-V was priced very close to the M5 and C63 AMG but looked as out of place as the Jeep Trackhawk does against the Range Rover SVR and Alfa Romeo Stelvio. A big motor doesn’t automatically make it worth the price of the competition.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Snoman

Uhm, sure thing. Pricing starts at $42k

You can option out a nice crew cab Z71 with 4x4 model for mid to upper 30s.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

If anyone's in the business of making decals/badges, a lot of owners of lower Sierra trims will probably want something to put where the 5.3L/6.2L badge goes...

Emblempros would probably do custom badging for those.

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I mean by your logic Camaro starts at $63k and Corvette at $121k.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I'm thinking Snoman only considers loaded out and/or top trim models (see six figure CT6 comment from last week).

I've never considered purchasing the lowest quality/cheapest option available of any product line. Apples to apples by y'alls logic; the Ram 1500 can be had well under $30k and is twice the truck for less money.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Snoman

I've never considered purchasing the lowest quality/cheapest option available of any product line. Apples to apples by y'alls logic; the Ram 1500 can be had well under $30k and is twice the truck for less money.

If I don't want it, it doesn't exist. Nice 2 year old logic there.

And that isn't apples to apples at all. Ram 1500 starts at $27k (the outgoing model), Colorado starts at $21k. Ram 1500 is a bigger truck for more money no matter how you try to work the numbers. And in any case, you wouldn't want the sub-30k lowest quality/cheapest option available Ram anyways, so what does it matter?

[JerTM]

Originally Posted by Snoman

I've never considered purchasing the lowest quality/cheapest option available of any product line. Apples to apples by y'alls logic; the Ram 1500 can be had well under $30k and is twice the truck for less money.

Watch out, we got a baller here. Having been repairing GM vehicle for over a decade now I can tell you that higher cost trim does not translate into a better vehicle. It simply means you've overpaid for bells and whistles you most likely will never use or understand.

[Snoman]

The Colorado is half the vehicle the Ram 1500 is, but instead of costing half it's at best, 1/3 off. There is a basic concept of return of investment, value, obtaining the most quantity for least money and the Colorado fails pretty much all of them. The Colorado is a cute mini-truck at best, fills a niche market for those naive enough to believe there is quality there of any kind and willing to over pay for such a toy.

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by JerTM

Watch out, we got a baller here. Having been repairing GM vehicle for over a decade now I can tell you that higher cost trim does not translate into a better vehicle. It simply means you've overpaid for bells and whistles you most likely will never use or understand.

I look for the best value, not the best flash. I hear you on trim, been looking at trucks and full size suv and these manufactures are on drugs for putting $75k-100k tags on them. More realistically though, especially as I own stock in the big tree, they are all marketing genius to take advantage of how stupid the public has become. Anyone paying 6 figures for these vehicles (or close) is insane. Especially when you can buy the exact same vehicle (body + motor) for less than half, take it to a custom shop and obtain 10x the quality from a professional artist on the interior, entertainment system and connectivity for under $20k.

[JerTM]

Originally Posted by Snoman

I look for the best value, not the best flash. I hear you on trim, been looking at trucks and full size suv and these manufactures are on drugs for putting $75k-100k tags on them. More realistically though, especially as I own stock in the big tree, they are all marketing genius to take advantage of how stupid the public has become. Anyone paying 6 figures for these vehicles (or close) is insane. Especially when you can buy the exact same vehicle (body + motor) for less than half, take it to a custom shop and obtain 10x the quality from a professional artist on the interior, entertainment system and connectivity for under $20k.

I ordered an LT Silverado last year. I was very careful on the packages I ordered and options I wanted. It has heated leather power seats, nav, adjustable pedals, backup sensors, homelink and a lot of nice things that put it firmly into a nicely equipped LTZ. It priced out about 6K cheaper than the same truck with an LTZ badge. It's not the "impressive" higher trim to show off, but people don't care anyway and I saved money. You are 100% right about the SUVs, it's just absolute stupid money they are asking but people pay. It blows me away every time I PDI one and look at the sticker. They are going for 15-20K more than I paid for my truck and are only more useful in that they can haul one or two more people, other than that they are less useful.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Snoman

The Colorado is half the vehicle the Ram 1500 is, but instead of costing half it's at best, 1/3 off. There is a basic concept of return of investment, value, obtaining the most quantity for least money and the Colorado fails pretty much all of them. The Colorado is a cute mini-truck at best, fills a niche market for those naive enough to believe there is quality there of any kind and willing to over pay for such a toy.

Quality does not mean the same thing as capability. Quality is about being free from defects/problems/failures. Or to put it another way, being & doing what its supposed to.

According to your logic, a sledge hammer is higher quality than an ordinary carpenters hammer because it hits harder. And since a normal hammer can only hit with say 1/10th the force, it should cost 1/10th as much & anyone who buys anything other than a sledge for hammering purposes is naive. But its simply a different tool for a different purpose. A sledge is too big and unwieldy most of the time. Sure, sometimes its extra capability comes in real handy. Yet 99.9% of the time, not only does a smaller hammer work just fine for the job at hand but its better explicitly because of its smaller size.

But whether or not something is suitable for a particular task has pretty much nothing to do with quality. Sticking with hammer quality, you'd need to look at things like the hardness of the face. Is it so hard that its brittle & chips easily? Or is it too soft and easily picks up dents & dings? Is the handle smooth or does it have bumps or hard edges? Is the head likely to slide or break off the handle? And so on. Those are the kinds of things that determine if a hammer is high quality or not. Additionally, if it has nifty features like vibration attenuation or, I don't know, a laser sight (its ... hard to imagine a fancy hammer), they don't automatically raise the quality of the hammer. If that fancy laser sight breaks or falls off or is misaligned or works sporadically, its low quality. But a hammer with decent vibration absorption makes it that much easier to use repeatedly, allowing you to hit more things with it in a given day.

I'll stop here. I could keep going on all day about the details that determine the quality of something as simple as a hammer (which pretty much has 1 function: hit things). For a car (or truck) that is vastly more complex, it would take forever. But I hope you get the gist of the difference between quality, capability, and features. Even though they can be interrelated, they are not interchangeable.

[Snoman]

Agree to an extent, there are no shortage of fools in the sales arena today that's for sure. Ultimately 'quality' is in the eye of the beholder, unfortunately most of the public are buying snake oil without looking under the hood.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by Snoman

I look for the best value, not the best flash. I hear you on trim, been looking at trucks and full size suv and these manufactures are on drugs for putting $75k-100k tags on them. More realistically though, especially as I own stock in the big tree, they are all marketing genius to take advantage of how stupid the public has become. Anyone paying 6 figures for these vehicles (or close) is insane. Especially when you can buy the exact same vehicle (body + motor) for less than half, take it to a custom shop and obtain 10x the quality from a professional artist on the interior, entertainment system and connectivity for under $20k.

But yet, Dusk Edition.

Also, charging too much for trucks and SUV's... which the public is apparently willing to accept... keeps the doors open and allows them to also produce the cars that we enjoy. Without making a killing on Silverado's and Escalades, GM probably doesn't build Camaros.

[gahammerle]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Quality does not mean the same thing as capability. Quality is about being free from defects/problems/failures. Or to put it another way, being & doing what its supposed to.

According to your logic, a sledge hammer is higher quality than an ordinary carpenters hammer because it hits harder. And since a normal hammer can only hit with say 1/10th the force, it should cost 1/10th as much & anyone who buys anything other than a sledge for hammering purposes is naive. But its simply a different tool for a different purpose. A sledge is too big and unwieldy most of the time. Sure, sometimes its extra capability comes in real handy. Yet 99.9% of the time, not only does a smaller hammer work just fine for the job at hand but its better explicitly because of its smaller size.

But whether or not something is suitable for a particular task has pretty much nothing to do with quality. Sticking with hammer quality, you'd need to look at things like the hardness of the face. Is it so hard that its brittle & chips easily? Or is it too soft and easily picks up dents & dings? Is the handle smooth or does it have bumps or hard edges? Is the head likely to slide or break off the handle? And so on. Those are the kinds of things that determine if a hammer is high quality or not. Additionally, if it has nifty features like vibration attenuation or, I don't know, a laser sight (its ... hard to imagine a fancy hammer), they don't automatically raise the quality of the hammer. If that fancy laser sight breaks or falls off or is misaligned or works sporadically, its low quality. But a hammer with decent vibration absorption makes it that much easier to use repeatedly, allowing you to hit more things with it in a given day.

I'll stop here. I could keep going on all day about the details that determine the quality of something as simple as a hammer (which pretty much has 1 function: hit things). For a car (or truck) that is vastly more complex, it would take forever. But I hope you get the gist of the difference between quality, capability, and features. Even though they can be interrelated, they are not interchangeable.

This hits the nail on the head!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by gahammerle

This hits the nail on the head!