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Old 07-23-2021, 01:51 PM   #1
cmitchell17

 
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85
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Who All Has Had Issues with 8L90 Aftermarket Converter (Non Shudder) Lockup?

In one of the recent HP Tuners beta files they opened up a new "TCC Desired Pressure" which is a really big deal as it can force more TCC apply pressure so we can have some sort of control over the TCC.

Anyway there is still doubts this actually works and I can't get my Circle D converter to lock even when maxing this table out.

I can tell it makes some difference when maxxed out but the lockup clutch is still slipping badly with anymore than about 20-30% throttle. My suspicion is that it has an internal fluid leak and can't get enough apply pressure to fully lock.

Who all has had issues with any aftermarket converters? And also how much spacing did you bolt it in with away from the flexplate?

The one I have is supposedly supposed to be a stock torque converter with just a billet machined stator and a carbon lockup clutch (which I thought the factory clutch was already woven carbon) so it shouldn't have anything radically different than the factory torque converter that worked 100% fine after I switched my fluid to the blue label LV stuff.
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Old 07-23-2021, 02:39 PM   #2
Umbriel

 
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Mine locks fine. Does yours lock when you push it over into manual mode?
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Old 07-23-2021, 03:14 PM   #3
cmitchell17

 
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No manual mode makes no difference. I can see when the torque converter is commanding on in the scanner and I can see it raise pressure, which this pressure you see in the scanner is a "fake" calculated pressure. The real pressure is determined by what the regulator gain and offset is set at based off line pressure.

Anyway I can see it go to full "calculated" pressure at 495 psi but it is just not enough to hold the TCC apply clutch.

When I had the stock torque converter it would lock fine, and stay locked in manual mode as well, it only had trouble locking at WOT when you commanded it but it would eventually lock at the end of second at WOT but very slowly. I think this new table would have worked to force it to lock better with more pressure and faster but problem is now I have an aftermarket converter and either something is wrong with it, or it needs significantly more pressure to lock than the stock converter which is why I am asking if anyone else is having any problems with aftermarket converters.
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Old 07-23-2021, 03:16 PM   #4
cmitchell17

 
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My personal opinion is I am going to probably end up wasting $1400 and a lot of labor having to put the stock one back in. They will probably keep trying to blame it as a tuning issue while HP Tuners keeps saying there is nothing wrong with the lockup tables so then ill be stuck. I think HP Tuners has fixed the software side with this new TCC Desired Pressure table.
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Old 07-23-2021, 03:32 PM   #5
Umbriel

 
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I'd send it back to Circle D and tell them it won't lock, I had to send mine back for a different issue and they took care of it.

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Old 07-23-2021, 03:44 PM   #6
cmitchell17

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbriel View Post
I'd send it back to Circle D and tell them it won't lock, I had to send mine back for a different issue and they took care of it.

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Yeah I am hoping they take it back. Mostly likely I will put the stock one back in, it is just too much effort to have to pull the engine or trans with no lift, so I don't want to pull it out then wait weeks to put it back in. I don't think a converter is worth it given the cam I have.
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Old 07-26-2021, 06:25 PM   #7
cmitchell17

 
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So I found out the rattle/chatter coming from the converter in park/neutral is supposedly normal. It is the mutli disk clutches rattling around and when you put it in drive it puts a load on it so the clutches don't move and rattle.

So this defiantly decides for me that I am going to put the stock converter back in, the basically non-existent/non-noticeable "gain" is 100% not worth it to make the car sound like a POS. If anyone is interested in buying one let me know.
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Old 07-26-2021, 09:53 PM   #8
Umbriel

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
So I found out the rattle/chatter coming from the converter in park/neutral is supposedly normal. It is the mutli disk clutches rattling around and when you put it in drive it puts a load on it so the clutches don't move and rattle.

So this defiantly decides for me that I am going to put the stock converter back in, the basically non-existent/non-noticeable "gain" is 100% not worth it to make the car sound like a POS. If anyone is interested in buying one let me know.
My car is so loud and makes so many noises I never really noticed it as being anything other than just one of the many noises, lol.

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Old 07-31-2021, 08:09 PM   #9
cmitchell17

 
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So I finally got the motor out again and my hands are killing me, it appears there is absolutely nothing wrong I see. I want to just put the stock torque converter back in. I know I would have to put it back in and pray and hope it works and im not pulling the motor out all over again to inspect someting else, but I don't know what else to do. The rattle that the Circle D makes in park/neutral is not acceptable to me, it makes the car sound like a POS. So let that be a warning to anyone getting a higher stall (not sure if its only Circle D converters that do it or maybe only there 8L90 converter) that it will make this rattle noise when the clutches aren't loaded, so anytime its in park neutral and there is no load on the engine. I had a Suncoast triple disk converter in a Duramax and I never heard any noise like this at all.

I honestly don't think the higher stall would help any, it didn't appear to help when I tested it although it wasn't locking up.

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Old 07-31-2021, 08:50 PM   #10
Umbriel

 
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Do you by chance have a video of the noise? Here is a video of mine at idle and its always been a little noisy to me.

https://youtu.be/DBPGMN6MlwU

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Old 07-31-2021, 09:10 PM   #11
cmitchell17

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbriel View Post
Do you by chance have a video of the noise? Here is a video of mine at idle and its always been a little noisy to me.

https://youtu.be/DBPGMN6MlwU

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No I never recorded it unfortunately, but at the very first part of your video I think I may have heard it. It sounds like a rattle should sound, like something is loose in the transmission bellhousing and the torque converter housing it hitting it and its bouncing all around in the housing.
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Old 08-01-2021, 12:21 AM   #12
Umbriel

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
No I never recorded it unfortunately, but at the very first part of your video I think I may have heard it. It sounds like a rattle should sound, like something is loose in the transmission bellhousing and the torque converter housing it hitting it and its bouncing all around in the housing.
https://youtu.be/uqxuU55jl74

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Old 08-01-2021, 02:38 PM   #13
Trochoidal

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
No I never recorded it unfortunately, but at the very first part of your video I think I may have heard it. It sounds like a rattle should sound, like something is loose in the transmission bellhousing and the torque converter housing it hitting it and its bouncing all around in the housing.
Can you get your fingers in the stator spline and rotate the stator? This would best mimic your noise and also let you know the “clutch” is functioning correctly.

If there’s any extra clearance where the Torrington bearings, that are on the stators plates, contact the turbine and the pump it would be noticeable. We’re not talking about a huge gap here. You can also push and pull on the stator spline to feel for any play that could possibly exist.

The shafts on the tranny look fine.
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Old 08-01-2021, 06:22 PM   #14
cmitchell17

 
Drives: 17 2SS, 8L90, Cam, Heads, E85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trochoidal View Post
Can you get your fingers in the stator spline and rotate the stator? This would best mimic your noise and also let you know the “clutch” is functioning correctly.

If there’s any extra clearance where the Torrington bearings, that are on the stators plates, contact the turbine and the pump it would be noticeable. We’re not talking about a huge gap here. You can also push and pull on the stator spline to feel for any play that could possibly exist.

The shafts on the tranny look fine.
So Circle D says the noise is completely normal. I actually almost have the entire car back together with the stock torque converter in. Honestly I am almost too scared to drive it and find out if it still doesn't lock up. I can't even imagine me getting it back together with the stock converter then knowing I have to tear it all back down again.

I did change the turbine oring seal before I put the stock torque converter back on and filled it up with fluid.
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