[Darth Martel]

My project is/was to upgrade my CAM as well as my torque converter. I purchased parts through my normal, highly reputable source. The CAM kit is a Texas Speed kit. Torque converter is a Square D though, not really relevant to my issues. CAM kit has the standard upgrades including DOD delete. My installer is reputable. The guy knows his stuff. Install cost ran about 3k, which seems pretty standard from what I've seen. Dude hits me up yesterday to tell me he's done but, there's a problem. One of the lifters is bad. Obviously, not a catastrophic issue but, definitely not ideal and definitely not an easy fix as the engine has to be torn into again and one of the heads removed to access it. The part is obviously covered so no worries there. But, considering the work involved to replace it, my installer will obviously want to be compensated. So, I called my source for parts, obviously a middle man, to see what to do about all this. As expected, the replacement lifter and new gasket will be provided but, the middle man will obviously not cover labor. I totally get that as they're just the middle man. They're going to call Texas Speed today to try and work out a solution on labor but, from the Google searches I've done, I'm not optimistic on them coming through. I'm trying to figure out what options I will have. I could just bend over and take the estimated 700 labor cost to replace a single, defective lifter but, that doesn't seem right since it's a defective part. The manufacturer SHOULD stand behind their product and remedy with TOTAL replacement cost, including labor. Just based on general principle, I shouldn't have to pay for that. So, what should I do? Is there a way to fight Texas Speed and get them to pony up for replacing their defective part? I've watched a couple DIY vids on CAM installs and removing the heads but, I'm not exactly comfortable with tearing into the engine myself. Am I overly fearful? Is it something that's doable for an inexperienced mechanic? I have upgraded my headers myself and removed/installed my intake manifold for porting. But, I've never dived into an engine very far removing heads or anything like that. Texas Speed may do the right thing and make things right. My installer may take pity on me and just do it considering I just dropped 3k on him. It is a PITA though. It's some work to replace. I just want to know what my options are and get some input from you guys. I appreciate whatever feedback you could give me.

Thanks very much

[6spdhyperblue]

I’m gonna say you’re SOL on this one to the point it’s not worth fighting or getting frustrated. Just pay it and move on.

I got a bad batch of valvesprings once. They only replaced the three bad ones that broke. Other people were reporting broken springs and turned out they were from the same batch. The response was that if they didn’t break they will be fine. That made no sense, just bought another whole set from a different batch. That was ten years ago, won’t forget it. Lol

[LiqTenExp]

Welcome to the land of modification. Won't be the last time this happens, gotta pay to play.

[Puddin]

As far as I know TSP doesn't make lifters they just provide them from other suppliers so I don't see them covering the labor. I can tell you that they do stand by the work that they do though. I had a head leak and hydrolock my motor so they took the head back tested it and found out that it had pinholes from the porting so they offered a complete set of new heads but since I bought a new set elsewhere they cut me a killer deal on a new 427 short block.

[SSUNDVL]

Whats wrong with the lifter? I recently installed my cam and upgraded the valve train, the big time killer is the cleaning, which probably won't be too bad with a fresh head. I would push back and see when this was discovered... like once the engine turned over or while they were degreeing the cam? If they were in the process of degreeing the cam it should not be a huge issue or much time to pull a fresh head and swap a lifter.

I would ask about when they learned this was an issue and if they did not check things out as they did the install I would try to get them to lower that price.

[Darth Martel]

From what I gathered, it's when they actually started the car the bad lifter was discovered.

[SSUNDVL]

Some shops dont degree the cam, but they should have to confirm the specs were correct, all manufactures can have some minute level of error. I would try to see if this was done and if not then push back on them a bit, they might be willing to negotiate a little, but it will still be a couple hours of work and they would have needed to put the extra time in regardless as you degree the cam prior to putting the valve covers back on (which dont take much time). Shitty situation, but once fixed the car will be fun!

If you are using head bolts, make sure to get new ones.

[oldman]

IMO, and I LIVED through the valvetrain wars on the LS1 (went to a Challenger after that), and then proceeded to do the exact same thing on the LT1. IMO the only workable 100K setup is: sub .600 lift, gentle ramp (Cam Motion or GM), best of every product including the valves, change the "mild springs" every 30K or so and just maybe, just maybe but probably not, but I may (hopefully) see 100K before rebuilds.. just maybe but probably not. I'll let everybody else pretend there is a way to build a rapid ramp above .600 lift setup using mainly stock or slightly upgrade parts that offers any longevity at all. The only differences is when my setup blows up AGAIN, I will honestly report it here. Not pretend my stuff don't stink.

[Tim M]

That is one big paragraph!

No one is obligated to compensate you for the situation. True - modifying cars is not always as simple as the magazines, etc. lead you to believe.

Removing heads is not rocket science, but it is only one step away from a full engine rebuild - buy a book on the subject and make an informed decision on your capabilities and equipment/tools.

Good Luck!

[oldman]

Originally Posted by SSUNDVL

Some shops dont degree the cam, but they should have to confirm the specs were correct, all manufactures can have some minute level of error.

This cam really can't be "degreed" in. Many builds use a limiter anywhere from 6 to 22 degrees. I believe stock is around 60 degrees. So this is not like the old days where the engine has a solid gear and some offset bushings to give me the builder +/- a few degrees. I don't know every possible bolt, gear combination available for this engine, but realistically nobody is doing a degree with the cam. I could be wrong, but don't think so. The Cam Motion solid gear, single bolt cam upgrade will run at least $800 above the cost of just putting a limiter in the stock cam gear.

I built my motor mounted the heads temp and visually check piston to valve clearance (there was a LOT), I have a "low" lift cam and my pistons have large valve notches in them. If I had more time I would have checked the piston to valve clearance with the stock pistons just for grins.

Nutshell a few degrees does not matter much with this engine sub stage 3 cams in terms of piston to valve, and has nothing to do at all with a lifter failure. The ramp profile and amount of lift has everything to do with it (and the quality of lifter).

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Tim M

That is one big paragraph!

No one is obligated to compensate you for the situation. True - modifying cars is not always as simple as the magazines, etc. lead you to believe.

Removing heads is not rocket science, but it is only one step away from a full engine rebuild - buy a book on the subject and make an informed decision on your capabilities and equipment/tools.

Good Luck!

words of wisdom

[SSUNDVL]

Originally Posted by oldman

This cam really can't be "degreed" in. Many builds use a limiter anywhere from 6 to 22 degrees. I believe stock is around 60 degrees. So this is not like the old days where the engine has a solid gear and some offset bushings to give me the builder +/- a few degrees. I don't know every possible bolt, gear combination available for this engine, but realistically nobody is doing a degree with the cam. I could be wrong, but don't think so. The Cam Motion solid gear, single bolt cam upgrade will run at least $800 above the cost of just putting a limiter in the stock cam gear.

I build my motor mounted the heads temp and visually check piston to valve clearance (there was a LOT), I have a "low" lift cam and my pistons have large valve notches in them. If I had more time I would have checked the piston to valve clearance with the stock pistons just for grins.

Nutshell a few degrees does not matter much with this engine sub stage 3 cams in terms of piston to valve, and has nothing to do at all with a lifter failure. The ramp profile and amount of lift has everything to do with it (and the quality of lifter).

Odd, I degree'd mine to verify the specs were the same as the cam card. it doesn't take much time and can potentially save a lot of hassle if the cam was swapped prior to packaging. But to each their own.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by SSUNDVL

Odd, I degree'd mine to verify the specs were the same as the cam card. it doesn't take much time and can potentially save a lot of hassle if the cam was swapped prior to packaging. But to each their own.

Did you modify anything at all when you "degree'd" your cam in?? You can only verify, I have NEVER found a cam out of spec. It is far more important to check piston to valve, at least IMO.

[Baddawg53]

I definitely think you’ll have to eat the cost of labor, but honestly these engines are not bad to tear down. I did the cam and heads in my 17SS, one head is definitely doable even for an inexperienced guy on a Saturday. If you wanna tackle it, there’s a lot of knowledge in these forums, and feel free to contact me direct if you decide to change it out.