[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

point is that ZL1 is not stock and you have no idea what mods it has.

Never said it was. The post was to show a good launch. Remember, there is an 11.6 stock in the fast list. It is possible with a good launch. Even you admitted that in a roundabout way when you mentioned he tricked the computer.

Guy in the comments is not the poster and has no clue about the tires...notice he only posted those "sticky tire" comments today (kinda suspect huh) while that video was posted back in 2015 when the car was new. LOL his avatar is a ****ing 4th gen FFS.

You have no idea whether it has mods or not either, and even if it was then or now, it doesn't make what he said any less valid.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

We were talking about the 6th gen ZL1 M6 bog issues when the car is stock. Or so I thought. Not sure what a modded 5th gen has to do with that. At all.

From what I read, the 5th gens had the same bog issue, but you're right, we were talking about the 6th gen. Not the best illustration.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So the only criticism a Mustang guy can come up with against the ZL1 is the M6 ZL1 and only because of the "bog issue". That's hilarious. So a M6 ZL1 with a "bog issue" is still faster than the Shelby at it's best, lol!! Ok, got it.

For the record, there is no "bog issue" with the M6 ZL1. It is a track car and was built for the track. I mean, isn't that what the Shelby guys use as an excuse for the $65K+ GT350R not being an 11 sec car? LOL!! The ZL1 drives exactly as it was built to drive and exactly as it was programmed to drive from the factory. So it isn't an issue at all since it was programmed that way. If it was an actual issue the GM would have fixed it before releasing it or put out a recall on them. Whether or not they offer updated programming we will see. But fact is that there are quite a few people who have reported no "bog issue" whatsoever even with launching and at the track. Which to me sounds like it is more of a driver issue. Perhaps it needs to be launched a specific way that some people can't figure out or outright just can't do. Who knows. Maybe GM didn't want people getting in the ZL1 and plowing into crowds, trees, etc like the Mustang guys seem to love doing. Maybe it was a way to protect the driveline. Or some combination of all that. But I'd be willing to bet that me in a M6 ZL1 with a bit of seat time will beat anyone in a GT350 stock for stock.

Agreed. I've called it a 'bog issue', but it seems it's more about learning how to properly launch the car, than an actual 'issue'. Although, the factory torque management probably makes it more of a challenge like it does with the SS M6.

[Martinjlm]

Why is there even a discussion on what ZL1 can do when there is a fast list with 18 bone stock ZL1s all under 12? https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427506. Most are A10, but the one M6 was 11.643.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Agreed. I've called it a 'bog issue', but it seems it's more about learning how to properly launch the car, than an actual 'issue'. Although, the factory torque management probably makes it more of a challenge like it does with the SS M6.

Exactly. GM made this car this way probably because they don't want people taking it to the track and smacking a wall or launching the hell out of it and slamming into a curb. In my experiences with multiple cars, GM puts the best control programming into their cars. And it is no different in the ZL1. This is the most powerful Camaro ever. You gotta expect that GM is going to program the ECU to protect the car, driver, other people, and property. People can criticize it on the strip all they want. Still, at the same price, Ford makes nothing that comes even close in a straight line or on a track. It straight up destroys everything in the same price range. And even outside of it's price range, under $100K the only thing that can beat it is the Z06...another Chevy.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Why is there even a discussion on what ZL1 can do when there is a fast list with 18 bone stock ZL1s all under 12? https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427506. Most are A10, but the one M6 was 11.643.

Because the only time they can criticize any Camaro is when they cherry pick the M6 ZL1 specifically for a non-existent "bogging issue". Meanwhile they're still waiting on the GT500 which got pushed back yet again. The PP2 got pushed back. The GT350 is slated for upgrades of who knows what and who knows when and what exactly it'll do is unknown. Ford is the best at keeping things a secret. Why? Because it fails, then they have to go back to the drawing board to see how much they can skimpingly add while still being cheap asses...then it fails again, so they have to push it back again, add more...fail again...and here we are in June of 2018 not knowing exactly what the GT500, GT PP2, or the Gt350 will have or not have, lol!!

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

When the only thing you can brag about is a max effort 11.97 quarter mile in the top model Mustang. Sure, pay well over $60K for the best Mustang and just barely break out of the 12s...in ideal weather conditions at that.

Yes you are correct it is pretty sad that a 650/650 manual Camaro struggles to do so. This may even be worse than the manual 5th Gen ZL1. But hey it's got a Ring time.

This is a losing argument for you. You can't bash a 526 hp manual car for not being able to run 11s while not bashing a 580/550 or even worse 650/650 manual car unable to do it as well.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Why is there even a discussion on what ZL1 can do when there is a fast list with 18 bone stock ZL1s all under 12? https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427506. Most are A10, but the one M6 was 11.643.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes you are correct it is pretty sad that a 650/650 manual Camaro struggles to do so. This may even be worse than the manual 5th Gen ZL1. But hey it's got a Ring time.

This is a losing argument for you. You can't bash a 526 hp manual car for not being able to run 11s while not bashing a 580/550 or even worse 650/650 manual car unable to do it as well.

Can’t believe this is even a point of discussion.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes you are correct it is pretty sad that a 650/650 manual Camaro struggles to do so. This may even be worse than the manual 5th Gen ZL1. But hey it's got a Ring time.

This is a losing argument for you. You can't bash a 526 hp manual car for not being able to run 11s while not bashing a 580/550 or even worse 650/650 manual car unable to do it as well.

You're trying too hard dude. We all already know the Mustang is a joke. But keep on trying to troll. Based on the messages I've been getting, none of us are taking you seriously anyway. You sound you got your feelings hurt and the only thing left to do is try to piss people off. And the saddest thing is, for half the money, the SS 1LE is 1 tenth slower and can match the R on a track. So when Ford makes a $65K+ car that can beat a SS 1LE...or better yet, when Ford makes a $65K+ car that can beat their own GT, then we'll talk. Until then you're not saying much of anything.$65K plus markups for the slowest "Muscle Car" that can't beat any V8 Camaro at what it is built for. That says a lot. At least the slow M6 ZL1 can beat the R at everything!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Can’t believe this is even a point of discussion.

Nobody is taking him seriously. Something rubbed him the wrong way and now he's resorting to bashing. Typical of a Mustang dude. Funniest thing is that no matter what he says, there isn't a Mustang that can beat our "slow" M6 ZL1 at anything. So just let him talk. He ain't hurting nothing.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Can’t believe this is even a point of discussion.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Nobody is taking him seriously. Something rubbed him the wrong way and now he's resorting to bashing. Typical of a Mustang dude. Funniest thing is that no matter what he says, there isn't a Mustang that can beat our "slow" M6 ZL1 at anything. So just let him talk. He ain't hurting nothing.

Exactly. Newmoon knows the answer to his own question and that its BS. He's just trolling. FYI - he'll also take the Dodge side of any debate.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well this is a Camaro forum and I am biased towards the Camaro anyway. So although I didn't care for the Z28, I still like it better than the GT350. Plus the Z28 was ended in 2015. Things are a lot different now just a few years later. The GT350 has no excuse at this point. Like I said, regardless of what it was built for, the fact that the competition is doing what the GT350R was built for better and everything the GT350R wasn't built for on top of that all for a lower price and with way more options is inexcusable. Ford is a bit behind.

So just so we are on the same page here. Let's just say in bizarro world, the cars were flipped and there was no ZL1 only a Z/28 and no 350 only a 500. The 500 does everything well, and the Z/28 is only good on the track but the 500 edges it out in everything you would criticize the Z/28 correct?

Originally Posted by hotlap

Lol. Do you really believe the GT350 is a 12.2 car? ...without bog issues? Do you remember all the pre-release 0 to 60 estimates of 3.7 sec? Lol.

Maybe if the ZL1 had vibrating seats it would have done better in the subjective vote. Lol

Remember the overheating base GT350s? ...or the overrev feature the Ford removed after the shit storm that occurred when it leaked? ...or C&D’s recommendation?

The GT350 was a great concept that failed in its execution. A disgrace.

IIRC wasn't that document of over rev from a preproduction manual before the car was even released? Do we know for sure they removed because of "public outcry" if not IMO that's not fair to claim that as fact.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No matter how "slow" you think the Camaro is, any Camaro, guess what...there's a more expensive Mustang that is even slower. The GT350 did really well at matching the Zs in their final year of production all while costing more, having less options, and having markups on top of that. After that year, 2015, no Mustang has been able to beat any Camaro on the same tier level. Which is why the Mustang guys then created the argument that this or that isn't an apples to apples comparison and that the PP1 wasn't the match for the SS 1LE. So sure, you can say the ZL1 is slow all you want. I'll take my slow ZL1 and enjoy the fact that you guys are still waiting until January for any hopes of beating us. By then we'll be so tired of kicking ass that it won't even matter who wins. LOL!!

Only responding to the bold part, actually MSRP to MSRP the 350R performed
better than the Z/28, while being cheaper, and offering MORE options. Yes dealers put huge markups on the 350 and 350R, just as dealers did with the first Z/28s.

After that though yeah Camaro has been way ahead.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So the only criticism a Mustang guy can come up with against the ZL1 is the M6 ZL1 and only because of the "bog issue". That's hilarious. So a M6 ZL1 with a "bog issue" is still faster than the Shelby at it's best, lol!! Ok, got it.

For the record, there is no "bog issue" with the M6 ZL1. It is a track car and was built for the track. I mean, isn't that what the Shelby guys use as an excuse for the $65K+ GT350R not being an 11 sec car? LOL!! The ZL1 drives exactly as it was built to drive and exactly as it was programmed to drive from the factory. So it isn't an issue at all since it was programmed that way. If it was an actual issue the GM would have fixed it before releasing it or put out a recall on them. Whether or not they offer updated programming we will see. But fact is that there are quite a few people who have reported no "bog issue" whatsoever even with launching and at the track. Which to me sounds like it is more of a driver issue. Perhaps it needs to be launched a specific way that some people can't figure out or outright just can't do. Who knows. Maybe GM didn't want people getting in the ZL1 and plowing into crowds, trees, etc like the Mustang guys seem to love doing. Maybe it was a way to protect the driveline. Or some combination of all that. But I'd be willing to bet that me in a M6 ZL1 with a bit of seat time will beat anyone in a GT350 stock for stock.

The ZL1 is not a track car, it is meant to be a grand touring car or as I believe hotlap likes to call it a triple threat. It is meant to do everything well in a balanced package. It can tear up the strip, rip up a road course or just be a comfortable 650HP cruiser. The ZLE is a track car. Purpose built for road courses.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Exactly. GM made this car this way probably because they don't want people taking it to the track and smacking a wall or launching the hell out of it and slamming into a curb. In my experiences with multiple cars, GM puts the best control programming into their cars. And it is no different in the ZL1. This is the most powerful Camaro ever. You gotta expect that GM is going to program the ECU to protect the car, driver, other people, and property. People can criticize it on the strip all they want. Still, at the same price, Ford makes nothing that comes even close in a straight line or on a track. It straight up destroys everything in the same price range. And even outside of it's price range, under $100K the only thing that can beat it is the Z06...another Chevy.

In the ask Al section, that is the laymans terms answer to the ZL1 "bog" It's programmed in to protect the drive line. And a lot of the m6 owners that take it to the strip have complained about and continue to complain about.

[SpeedIsLife]

Okay, this thread has now become something I can't even follow anymore..and I've been in it for a while.

[ULTRAZLS1]

My little truth nugget against the voopoo just too much for the mustang faithful to bear lol