[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Xaxas

What praise is there to give? He went full throttle coming out of a corner to an elevate he couldn't see ahead of, even on 4th that's going to spin the tires if they're cold, specially if he had the nannies off (which I presumed showed in the PDR).

He did it on a track, where he won't end up running over and killing 3 people in the process if he screws up.

Come on, everyone screws up from time to time. People make mistakes, especially if they are exploring the limits of their car.

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

I’m with you. Far too many armchair experts that claim to know better.

Even if he did wrong, which I’m not stating either, I give credit for demonstrating humility/vulnerability in posting the video so others can learn and benefit.

Hope the damage was minimal but more likely was extensive. If so, hope he had track insurance.

I am simply trying to learn from their mistake. Of course I feel bad for them for crashing their car. It sucks.

It's like the Mark Reuss C7 ZR1 crash. One bad move and you have a bunch of strangers pointing fingers at you. I was amongst them until I actually tried to learn a bit about him and he is actually more than a guy that pushes paper like most people just assumed. He has a good amount of track experience, much more than most of the naysayers anyway.

I think the damage shouldn't be that bad but it's a bit hard to tell the true speed the car crashed into the tire wall at as the wheels are locked up from braking.

[That1guy_tim]

If you are pushing the limits and going for gold you are bound to crash in your lifetime. The people that never crash are the ones that don't care about their lap times.. Shit happens when pushing the limits. Kudos to this guy for being humble enough to post a crash video. Most people delete file and go cry with tail between their legs.

[N Camarolina]

Thanks to the OP and follow up info regarding the nanny settings at the time.

I was reviewing the footage as well (I have some limited track time at VIR and tons of VIR laps on Forza) and wondering about nanny settings from the PDR video. Mostly so I could learn from this episode and hopefully avoid an off or crash at VIR myself. It looked to me like the car was in simple track mode (not PTM), and as there are no displays about "all nannies off" I assumed everything was turned on. Thus surprised the PDR showed no PTM or stability management engagement when the car started to rotate inappropriately on exit. But if the OP had turned the nannies off, then the lack of that intervention on the PDR display makes more sense.

While not the best choice of settings or to use full throttle on corner exit before opening the wheel up (especially given the cold conditions at the time), that corner is one of the trickier ones at VIR. Carry too much speed in, and you'll go off on the right. Accelerate too aggressively during track out (or accelerate while rear wheels are on the outside gators) and the car will tend to over-rotate and hook inside. Combine that with the fact that you just went over a crest and are now heading down-hill, and it can be very difficult to catch the rear. On the simulator, I've put it into the wall just like the OP more times than I can count.

[Mountain]

So, I was actually there for that event. This was for the SCCA TT at VIR. There were two Camaros that wrecked during the Track Sprints.

You guys really need to chill out on the bench racing (sorry, have to be blunt here as I was there and I ran not too long after this gentleman). The other wreck occurred along the same element as this one and it was done by a very competent driver who knows VIR very well...

The night before and that morning were a lot colder than the day before. The curbing at VIR is painted and is very slippery until the track gets warm.

On top of that, the exit of T10 is a extremely common area to spin in exactly the way this gentleman did. The track isn't super wide after T10 and the road drops out of sight as you exit T10. The curbing extends just far enough and is very easy to exit that turn and over-shoot where the curbing ends

The track sprint format forces you to go, essentially all-out right off the bat (it's basically taking a section of a track with an autocross mentality).

What it seems to me is that the track was cold, the curbing was slick, the driver was running at a reasonable pace, took T10 as you would a normal track day, hit the exit curbing, perhaps caught some dirty/upset the rear over the slick curbing... slick grass... wall.

The driver, in looking at the PDR, is in "TRACK" (all-OFF), and not in a PTM mode. Regardless, unless you are running a mode with stability control active, you aren't getting help from the car for this one.

EDIT: FYI, the drivers are OK and the cars, both, are fixable. Both just have damage to the driver front. Looked mostly a bunch of plastic in the front, replace the crash beam and maybe a little pulling at the driver front, but not terrible.

[Xaxas]

Originally Posted by TWG1

I don’t know if you track your car, but your post indicates you likely don’t. In a track setting, he would have run that “blind” corner many times that day. Also, track-minded folks know they are always vulnerable to the ‘one bad move’, and generally approach others in the sport that have made a mistake with more grace than you seem able to offer. You’re not “the man in the arena”.

If you haven’t done a track day, I’d highly recommend it. Great people, great times, and it’ll change your perspective on a lot of things.

It's on my list of things to do soon, but at around $700 per track day + wear on the tires it's kinda prohibitive at the moment so I try and learn the fundamentals of it to prepare myself for the beginner course, and while everyone screws up like overcompensating steering and then applying throttle (which is something everyday drivers are hardwired to do), applying full throttle on a corner with cold tires is just dumb, we drive Camaros not Mustangs.

The good thing as stated by others is that the drivers was unharmed and the damage wasn't major, so we can complain on the internet about someone screwing up rather than lamenting the death of the car/person.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by That1guy_tim

If you are pushing the limits and going for gold you are bound to crash in your lifetime. The people that never crash are the ones that don't care about their lap times.. Shit happens when pushing the limits. Kudos to this guy for being humble enough to post a crash video. Most people delete file and go cry with tail between their legs.

I shoot competitively. A friend, who happens to be a world champion, told me once, "if you want to win, you have to be willing to lose".

Words of wisdom.

[TWG1]

Originally Posted by Xaxas

applying full throttle on a corner with cold tires is just dumb, we drive Camaros not Mustangs.

Do you realize how amateur you look by calling this guy dumb when you’ve never even been on a racetrack? Quit the name calling and save the insults for a topic you actually know something about.

[Xaxas]

Originally Posted by TWG1

Do you realize how amateur you look by calling this guy dumb when you’ve never even been on a racetrack? Quit the name calling and save the insults for a topic you actually know something about.

Oh I know very damn well you don't apply full throttle during a corner in a RWD 400+ HP V8 car with cold track tires and nannies off, that is objectively a dumb mistake and it has happened to me but I managed to take control of the car so I guess I know what I'm talking about you get a C- for trying to dismiss my experiences too, try again later!

[closs2sx]

Originally Posted by Xaxas

Oh I know very damn well you don't apply full throttle during a corner in a RWD 400+ HP V8 car with cold track tires and nannies off

Tell that to someone that drifts with a car with more than 850 rwhp

[closs2sx]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I shoot competitively. A friend, who happens to be a world champion, told me once, "if you want to win, you have to be willing to lose".

Words of wisdom.

love it

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I shoot competitively. A friend, who happens to be a world champion, told me once, "if you want to win, you have to be willing to lose".

Words of wisdom.

Absolutely. Apply to a lot of things in life as well.

Originally Posted by TWG1

Do you realize how amateur you look by calling this guy dumb when you’ve never even been on a racetrack? Quit the name calling and save the insults for a topic you actually know something about.

Have to agree here.

I have talked to a lot of experienced track people and yep, a few of them screwed up before and crashed their cars.

Again, people make mistakes, and it's not really a good time to point fingers at them. There is a very real difference between split-second decision-making and hindsight. Everyone is a genius in hindsight.

Originally Posted by Xaxas

It's on my list of things to do soon, but at around $700 per track day + wear on the tires it's kinda prohibitive at the moment so I try and learn the fundamentals of it to prepare myself for the beginner course, and while everyone screws up like overcompensating steering and then applying throttle (which is something everyday drivers are hardwired to do), applying full throttle on a corner with cold tires is just dumb, we drive Camaros not Mustangs.



The good thing as stated by others is that the drivers was unharmed and the damage wasn't major, so we can complain on the internet about someone screwing up rather than lamenting the death of the car/person.

If it's too expensive then try to AutoX first. You can only learn so much on paper.

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by Xaxas

It's on my list of things to do soon, but at around $700 per track day + wear on the tires it's kinda prohibitive at the moment so I try and learn the fundamentals of it to prepare myself for the beginner course, and while everyone screws up like overcompensating steering and then applying throttle (which is something everyday drivers are hardwired to do), applying full throttle on a corner with cold tires is just dumb, we drive Camaros not Mustangs.

The good thing as stated by others is that the drivers was unharmed and the damage wasn't major, so we can complain on the internet about someone screwing up rather than lamenting the death of the car/person.

Where in Florida are you?


In the Central Florida area (Orlando/Melbourne/Tampa) we have a very active AutoX group. There are 3-4 1LE's that come out regularly. It's a great way to start learning what the 1LE is capable of.


And FYI - it's hardly $700 per track day. Track Night In America has events at PBIR every month. That's $150 for 3 20min sessions. PBIR is a great 'beginner' track. Forgiving and fun. We also have The FIRM, $225 for an Open Track Day...all you can eat from open to close.

[Xaxas]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

Where in Florida are you?


In the Central Florida area (Orlando/Melbourne/Tampa) we have a very active AutoX group. There are 3-4 1LE's that come out regularly. It's a great way to start learning what the 1LE is capable of.


And FYI - it's hardly $700 per track day. Track Night In America has events at PBIR every month. That's $150 for 3 20min sessions. PBIR is a great 'beginner' track. Forgiving and fun. We also have The FIRM, $225 for an Open Track Day...all you can eat from open to close.

Tampa bay area, I was planning on starting with FAST AutoX but apparently they are no longer operating, The FIRM caught my eye but it's $275 for rookie session, track insurance is another $300 or so, helmet for $100 or so, fluid changes so I have estimated my first session would be around $800 or so, won't break the bank but still have to plan around it, however if you have an AutoX group in central FL I may just be interested in joining you.

[MatthewAMEL]

Originally Posted by Xaxas

Tampa bay area, I was planning on starting with FAST AutoX but apparently they are no longer operating, The FIRM caught my eye but it's $275 for rookie session, track insurance is another $300 or so, helmet for $100 or so, fluid changes so I have estimated my first session would be around $800 or so, won't break the bank but still have to plan around it, however if you have an AutoX group in central FL I may just be interested in joining you.

The FIRM has a coupon code for 1st timers...it's $50 off. Then if you register at least 24 hours in advance, you get an 'early bird' $25 off.


If it is your 1st time EVER on track, then I think the require you to have an instructor in-car for part of the day. That has a cost, but I am not sure what it is.


TNIA does not have that requirement. Track Insurance is a good idea. Check into RLI, not Haggerty. I have found RLI to be cheaper for almost every event...even the ones that Haggerty sponsors.


For AutoX, it's the Central Florida SCCA Solo Group.
https://autocross.cfrscca.org/


All of those events (and others) are listed on Motorsportreg.com
https://www.motorsportreg.com/


You can search by distance and type of event and build yourself a custom calendar.


You'll quickly discover you can do something with your car every weekend if FL if you have the time and $.


You are right about FAST. Loren (FAST director) is just taking a hiatus AFAIK, due to his sites COVID restrictions. I would think he will be back when COVID is gone.


There is also Martin Sports Car Club
https://martinsportscarclub.org/


And Gulf Coast Autocrossers
http://www.gulfcoastautocrossers.com/


See you out there!


Matt