[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by appleman22

@soler,

what is your thoughts on these cars "relearning" in time, after a ported throttle body install. Many members have experienced the car becoming lazy once again.

appleman, a few points I think are at play.

The problem is compounded, Total Delay = Hardware (TB) + Non-Linear Throttle Map + Built-in Factory Tune Limits/Thresholds.

We only take care of the hardware issue here. At first, when you install it, you'll probably like it and feel a substantial difference. But one gets used to a good thing rather fast and you will definitely spot the other two components of the problem more clearly under certain driving conditions. Not that you lost what you had gained.

We have measured the throttle response after months of use, precisely b/c of these comments, no change in performance. Moreover, you install your stock TB back and it will do all you disliked about it, this is an easy reminder.

BTW, we are testing a throttle controller with some members here, that will take care of the second component.

Oh, to this point, and this something I experienced myself. When testing our throttle controller in my car, I initially thought the most aggressive modes were too much and that I'd probably get rid of them. One week later I was using the most aggressive mode permanently. What can I say, adrenaline is addictive, one always wants more of a good thing.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

appleman, a few points I think are at play.

The problem is compounded, Total Delay = Hardware (TB) + Non-Linear Throttle Map + Built-in Factory Tune Limits/Thresholds.

We only take care of the hardware issue here. At first, when you install it, you'll probably like it and feel a substantial difference. But one gets used to a good thing rather fast and you will definitely spot the other two components of the problem more clearly under certain driving conditions. Not that you lost what you had gained.

We have measured the throttle response after months of use, precisely b/c of these comments, no change in performance. Moreover, you install your stock TB back and it will do all you disliked about it, this is an easy reminder.

BTW, we are testing a throttle controller with some members here, that will take care of the second component.

Oh, to this point, and this something I experienced myself. When testing our throttle controller in my car, I initially thought the most aggressive modes were too much and that I'd probably get rid of them. One week later I was using the most aggressive mode permanently. What can I say, adrenaline is addictive, one always wants more of a good thing.

So far I like the TB but the slight surge is still there after 5 or 600 mi. Will that stop?

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Originally Posted by Deputy Dog

So far I like the TB but the slight surge is still there after 5 or 600 mi. Will that stop?

No, not after that long. It won't learn any better. We'll have to go custom in cases this. Unfortunately, some cars are so tightly calibrated that they won't accept what most cars will.

Please, e-mail or call, we'd like to know the details and customize accordingly.

Thanks, and sorry to hear that, we'll get you one that works 100% or a full refund.

[breadwoman]

This surge that everyone's talking about. What is it exactly? Is it that the car would accelerate in an excessive/inconsistent manner under gradual depression of the gas pedal?

In 2nd gear, my car would feel like it got an extra 50 lb/ft of torque when lightly accelerating at ~2.5k RPM since installing the Soler TB. Is that it?

[Move'n Up]

Originally Posted by breadwoman

This surge that everyone's talking about. What is it exactly? Is it that the car would accelerate in an excessive/inconsistent manner under gradual depression of the gas pedal?

In 2nd gear, my car would feel like it got an extra 50 lb/ft of torque when lightly accelerating at ~2.5k RPM since installing the Soler TB. Is that it?

It's when you try to hold a steady throttle and speed but the car feels like you are pushing the throttle and then letting off, say about 5~10%.

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by Move'n Up

It's when you try to hold a steady throttle and speed but the car feels like you are pushing the throttle and then letting off, say about 5~10%.

Yeh..thats it. Seems to be at around the 2k range give or take.

[Nitefall17]

I only get a surge when going V8 to V4 mode when the AFM valves are closing.
This is on the highway.

[geaux_tigerss]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

Yeh..thats it. Seems to be at around the 2k range give or take.

The VVE table has a weird non-linearity at that point. I'm not an expert on fueling and i think the MAF table is the more used table, but my gut says this has something to do with it.

I'll try to attach a photo of my stock VVE table so you can see what I am talking about.

edit: RPMS are the bottom axis, air mass (loading) is the left axis, the vertical axis is fueling.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Quick announcement; our LT5 Modified TB is out. Please, check this thread:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=561920

[rayhawk]

Originally Posted by geaux_tigerss

The VVE table has a weird non-linearity at that point. I'm not an expert on fueling and i think the MAF table is the more used table, but my gut says this has something to do with it.

I'll try to attach a photo of my stock VVE table so you can see what I am talking about.

edit: RPMS are the bottom axis, air mass (loading) is the left axis, the vertical axis is fueling.

So the vertical fueling axis, is this fuel rail pressure? I use the torque 2 app for logging, trying to produce a similar chart from my car.

[geaux_tigerss]

Originally Posted by rayhawk

So the vertical fueling axis, is this fuel rail pressure? I use the torque 2 app for logging, trying to produce a similar chart from my car.

It's not the fuel rail pressure, it's virtual volumetric efficiency (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_efficiency).

The chart I posted was made in excel from VVE table data I pulled out of HPTuners on my car. I would have just screen grabbed straight from HPTuners, but I didn't have the laptop with me at the time.

[NA18CamaroSS]

Screen shots of the VE table in EFI Live. The stock VE table has a huge valley in the middle from .037 to .059 above 3,000 RPM. Screen shot two is the stock VE table, screen shot one is a smoothed out VE table.

[Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC]

Thanks, B19. Great analysis, good data.

Do you have one of our TB's? If you are having surging issues and you think it is related to our TB, we can help with that.

Please, e-mail us or call. If you send us your TB serial number we can start the process from here.

Thanks,

[NA18CamaroSS]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

Thanks, B19. Great analysis, good data.

Do you have one of our TB's? If you are having surging issues and you think it is related to our TB, we can help with that.

Please, e-mail us or call. If you send us your TB serial number we can start the process from here.

Thanks,

No issues. The car runs like a champ. Waiting on my Pray Performance ported intake manifold so that I can send you my stock bore Soler TB for the Soler 95mm TB.