C&D 2018 Lightening Lap Mustang PP2 - Page 3

ST1LE · 09-20-2018, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhyUMad1LE

I like how the PP2 looks. I don’t like how they used Cup 2s without making the drivetrain track ready. Just seems like a cheap way to improve magazine times.

This is the only reason it exists.

End User · 09-20-2018, 01:43 PM

The Mustang GT PP2 came in last place in MT’s 2018 Drivers Car! They actually said it was “disappointing”.

According to MT the Kia Stinger is a better drivers car.

RideZX6R · 09-20-2018, 01:50 PM

I'm sure it's been said in here that LL times aren't really gospel because there are different drivers for each car, and my understanding here is some of those times are set by journalists, not pro drivers...

Which is why I favor MotorTrend in general (also specifically Best Driver's Car) over C&D and LL. MT/BDC ALWAYS uses Randy Pobst - so it's always apples to apples.

MatthewAMEL · 09-20-2018, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhyUMad1LE

I like how the PP2 looks. I don’t like how they used Cup 2s without making the drivetrain track ready. Just seems like a cheap way to improve magazine times.

:whs:

I'd like to see a 20-minute session at VIR between both.

The PP2 can keep the SC2, I'll take the 1LE with RE71s.

Yendor · 09-20-2018, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

:whs:

I'd like to see a 20-minute session at VIR between both.

Except the Mustang can't be driven that long without over heating stuff. We already know the winner of that face off.

Mountain · 09-20-2018, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by End User

Tires were the difference. The Mustang PP2 has Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires.

If it were a 10 lap run the rear diff on the Mustang would have melted.

No, I believe it’s the engine.

Camaro’s LT1 has a lower RPM limit and long gears.

Mustang’s Coyote G3 has a higher RPM limit and shorter gearing.

Similar HP and less torque, but the Mustang’s more aggressive gearing helps that.

VIR is a course with very long straights, which suits the Mustang better.

There is 1-second there, and there is likely some driver related discrepancy, but I’d bet on the PP2 putting down a slightly faster time, same driver, than the 1LE.

What’s a better track car? The 1LE; even if both cars are modded.

Mountain · 09-20-2018, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yendor

Except the Mustang can't be driven that long without over heating stuff. We already know the winner of that face off.

According to some, the diff overheating is made up

BlueSteel07 · 09-20-2018, 02:48 PM

I'm surprised that the Mustang did so well, but I would take these results with a grain of salt as it's not a same day test with the same professional driver. I've rented a base SS and base GT and they are in different leagues in terms of handling. The base Mustang had such sloppy handling and steering feel that I had to let off on a 1/4 mile acceleration test, for fear of wrecking, while the SS was planted at high speeds. Obviously, those were 2 base cars so that comparison might be irrelevant but the base GT has horrible handling in my opinion. Maybe the PP 2 is just that much better than the base?

EV2DEMON · 09-20-2018, 03:21 PM

I wouldn't be too concerned with the minor difference between the PP2 and 1LE on different days in different conditions. If you look at the historical times, there's a 1.5 second difference between the Ford GT they ran late last year and the one used in this test, and those cars are identical.

The Lightning lap is fun, but not scientific enough to mean that much. Heck, last year, the track was wet for a large number of the runs they made.

Yendor · 09-20-2018, 03:30 PM

They should start a racing series between the 2. Have a supercharged class and an NA class. So bench racing can be set aside. Production cars only. Cut out all this bench racing stuff and get down to business.

Joker328 · 09-20-2018, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

At every opportunity they can, Ford has said that the PP2 is not designed for use on the track, which is why it doesn’t have the coolers. In their view, it’s optimized for the “street” and backroads of America.

That's fine, but then why put Cup 2's on it? If you say it's not designed for the track, why not just put PS4S's on it? They are more than capable enough for aggressive street driving.

They know there is a sizable portion of their market that wants the bragging rights of the lap times but will never take their car to the track, and that's who the PP2 is for.

TRZ06 · 09-20-2018, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSteel07

I'm surprised that the Mustang did so well, but I would take these results with a grain of salt as it's not a same day test with the same professional driver. I've rented a base SS and base GT and they are in different leagues in terms of handling. The base Mustang had such sloppy handling and steering feel that I had to let off on a 1/4 mile acceleration test, for fear of wrecking, while the SS was planted at high speeds. Obviously, those were 2 base cars so that comparison might be irrelevant but the base GT has horrible handling in my opinion. Maybe the PP 2 is just that much better than the base?

Also keep in mind that the biggest differences between a base car and the track specials are MRC tuning and bushing stiffness. Both often overlooked when you get into the track focused cars.

Mountain · 09-20-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain

No, I believe it’s the engine.

Camaro’s LT1 has a lower RPM limit and long gears.

Mustang’s Coyote G3 has a higher RPM limit and shorter gearing.

Similar HP and less torque, but the Mustang’s more aggressive gearing helps that.

VIR is a course with very long straights, which suits the Mustang better.

There is 1-second there, and there is likely some driver related discrepancy, but I’d bet on the PP2 putting down a slightly faster time, same driver, than the 1LE.

What’s a better track car? The 1LE; even if both cars are modded.

To expand upon this, if you look at both videos, the corner speeds are similar; but if you look at the end of the big straight sections, the 1LE is down 1-3 MPH.

Just an observation.

Mountain · 09-20-2018, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 50MileSmile

At every opportunity they can, Ford has said that the PP2 is not designed for use on the track, which is why it doesn’t have the coolers. In their view, it’s optimized for the “street” and backroads of America.

Yeah, they did.

But they also:
-Put the most aggressive TRACK performance street tire they could, the WIDEST specification the car could handle
-Designed, with a “NASA” engineer, a TRACK-aero-centic front splitter
-Tuned ABS for the TRACK
-Installed TRACK-oriented brake pads
-Spec-ed springs, sway bars and MRC tuning for the TRACK (GT350 based)
-Added chassis reinforcement to handle the above upgrades
-Used a RACE CAR DRIVER for validation
-Tested, specifically, at many race TRACKS

Ford and any Mustang die-hard can say all day long this isn’t a track-oriented car: the design-intent of the equipment, nature of the validation and persons involved say a completly different story.

It’s a contradiction of itself.

Not that I don’t like the car, but this whole notion of it not being track oriented is so absurd.

09-20-2018, 01:43 PM	#30
End User Drives: 2018 2SS 1LE, 2012 GLI M6 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Upper Canada Posts: 82	The Mustang GT PP2 came in last place in MT’s 2018 Drivers Car! They actually said it was “disappointing”. According to MT the Kia Stinger is a better drivers car. Last edited by End User; 09-20-2018 at 02:20 PM.

09-20-2018, 01:50 PM	#31
RideZX6R Probably tired right now Drives: 1Lap1LE \| EV6 FE \| 18 F150 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: At the office (CLT, NC) Posts: 1,133	I'm sure it's been said in here that LL times aren't really gospel because there are different drivers for each car, and my understanding here is some of those times are set by journalists, not pro drivers... Which is why I favor MotorTrend in general (also specifically Best Driver's Car) over C&D and LL. MT/BDC ALWAYS uses Randy Pobst - so it's always apples to apples. __________________ -Seven '17 SS 1LE - 1LAP 1LE (Now with more 427!) '18 F150 Platinum Powerstroke diesel '22 Kia EV6 First Edition '18 RS3 (1 of 2) Cumulus Blue '24 911 T (ordered) Formers... '19 RS5 Sportback Sonoma Green \| '07 Cayman S 6MT \| '16 Audi S3 Prestige Viper Green (APR Stage 3+) \| '19 Mustang Shelby GT350R \| '17 SS 1LE MBM 575whp all-motor

09-20-2018, 03:30 PM	#38
Yendor Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS 1LE Hyper Blue Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Minnesota Posts: 661	They should start a racing series between the 2. Have a supercharged class and an NA class. So bench racing can be set aside. Production cars only. Cut out all this bench racing stuff and get down to business. __________________ 2017 Camaro 1SS 1LE Hyper Blue

09-20-2018, 02:48 PM	#36
BlueSteel07 Drives: Nothing Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: USA Posts: 233	I'm surprised that the Mustang did so well, but I would take these results with a grain of salt as it's not a same day test with the same professional driver. I've rented a base SS and base GT and they are in different leagues in terms of handling. The base Mustang had such sloppy handling and steering feel that I had to let off on a 1/4 mile acceleration test, for fear of wrecking, while the SS was planted at high speeds. Obviously, those were 2 base cars so that comparison might be irrelevant but the base GT has horrible handling in my opinion. Maybe the PP 2 is just that much better than the base?

09-20-2018, 03:21 PM	#37
EV2DEMON Drives: 2004 Z06, 2017 1LE Join Date: May 2017 Location: Indiana Posts: 57	I wouldn't be too concerned with the minor difference between the PP2 and 1LE on different days in different conditions. If you look at the historical times, there's a 1.5 second difference between the Ford GT they ran late last year and the one used in this test, and those cars are identical. The Lightning lap is fun, but not scientific enough to mean that much. Heck, last year, the track was wet for a large number of the runs they made.

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