[snarky]

apparently I expect too much. 400 - 500lbs would be awesome. 200lbs is just one less passenger.

[IOMike]

The LT-1 weighs what, about 20 lbs more than a LS3? But the gen6 has tubular shorty headers which are probably, 15-20lbs lighter than LS3 and C7 LT-1 cast iron manifolds. So I don't think the camaro will gain weight just on the LS3 to LT-1 change.

[fradaj]

Originally Posted by v6sonoma

My thinking is/was that the composite pieces are for the V6 or lower trim levels as I would think they are weaker compared to the aluminum.

Composites can be stronger and lighter, in some cases they are also more expensive. I was thinking just the opposite, maybe the 1LE or Z/28 would get the composite components.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by RaceAir

But in the past, many of these options were not bundled together, or were outright standard equipment the way they are now. You could truly customize your ride from the ground up.

Car manufacturers have price points in mind when a car is being designed. That means to meet that price point, things get sacrificed. I would hate to think that the engineers who are promoting something like lighter wheels be standard are losing out to marketing who claim they can't sell a Camaro to Paul in Peoria who prefers perforated pleather padding for his precious puckered patoot.A small number of loud cosmetic crybabies can ruin it for everyone.

I sure hope the 200 pound loss is not an exaggeration. I am not sure about calling a manufacturer's own claim (especially for a weight related item) as "confirmed", but it definitely signifies they may have learned from the Mustang introduction mistake.

Performance > Prettiness

Agreed, and that kind of special ordering hasn't existed for a long time. Rolls Royce will let you do that, but look at the cost.



Can you name an example where something has happened like that? More often than now it's emissions/safety that keep us from getting more performance parts, but that's what the aftermarket is for.

The stuff you don't value is often what the average buyer is looking for, and without them the price of the car would skyrocket or the car not exist at all. So those "loud crybabies" are probably the reason we get cars like the ZL1 and Z/28, since they can sell enough to "Paul" and the like to cover the cost for R&D. The bottom line is if they built cars for just people who just want pure performance, we wouldn't have a Camaro. Remember the 4th Gen!

[SteveD15]

So I am about 1 year into my '14 1LE. Use it as a daily driver and drove it through the winter with all seasons (except snow days). I still ask myself how is it possible that I am as or more excited about this car than the day that I signed the papers and drove it off the lot. What is it about these cars (including top mustang and challenger models) that stirs passions?

I loved the 5th gen when I saw the concept and even more when i saw it in person. I test drove it a couple of times and knew it was a matter of when and not if. I am not mechanically inclined and can do no serious modding alone. I am not expert in cold air induction, tri-y's, long tubes, headers, coil overs, etc. but I do know that this car makes me feel like a kid again and makes me smile when I'm behind the wheel.

I purchased my gen 5 when I knew gen 6 was on the way. It wasn't because I didn't think the Camaro team couldn't deliver on an improvement and evolution on gen 5 or that first MYs can be buggy but rather I just couldn't wait any longer. To convert me to this level of desire for this car is a testament to the Camaro team. I was down on US cars for a long time - avoiding them for nearly 15 years. You also have to credit these guys for doing what they did at a time when GM was on life support.

Sorry for the diatribe but the excitement over the pieces of information we are getting about gen 6 just overtook me. I will be paying attention to every detail, seeking out pictures, reading reviews, seeing it in person, test driving and who knows one day purchasing a gen 6 1LE or other performance variant to stable along side my '14 1LE.

It's a great time to be an enthusiast.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by IOMike

The LT-1 weighs what, about 20 lbs more than a LS3? But the gen6 has tubular shorty headers which are probably, 15-20lbs lighter than LS3 and C7 LT-1 cast iron manifolds. So I don't think the camaro will gain weight just on the LS3 to LT-1 change.

Good point.

[fradaj]

Originally Posted by SteveD15

So I am about 1 year into my '14 1LE. Use it as a daily driver and drove it through the winter with all seasons (except snow days). I still ask myself how is it possible that I am as or more excited about this car than the day that I signed the papers and drove it off the lot. What is it about these cars (including top mustang and challenger models) that stirs passions?

I loved the 5th gen when I saw the concept and even more when i saw it in person. I test drove it a couple of times and knew it was a matter of when and not if. I am not mechanically inclined and can do no serious modding alone. I am not expert in cold air induction, tri-y's, long tubes, headers, coil overs, etc. but I do know that this car makes me feel like a kid again and makes me smile when I'm behind the wheel.

I purchased my gen 5 when I knew gen 6 was on the way. It wasn't because I didn't think the Camaro team couldn't deliver on an improvement and evolution on gen 5 or that first MYs can be buggy but rather I just couldn't wait any longer. To convert me to this level of desire for this car is a testament to the Camaro team. I was down on US cars for a long time - avoiding them for nearly 15 years. You also have to credit these guys for doing what they did at a time when GM was on life support.

Sorry for the diatribe but the excitement over the pieces of information we are getting about gen 6 just overtook me. I will be paying attention to every detail, seeking out pictures, reading reviews, seeing it in person, test driving and who knows one day purchasing a gen 6 1LE or other performance variant to stable along side my '14 1LE.

It's a great time to be an enthusiast.

I am sure you could get a good trade for your 14 if you decide on getting a 6th gen.

[suzook]

Originally Posted by snarky

apparently I expect too much. 400 - 500lbs would be awesome. 200lbs is just one less passenger.

Agreed. I was expecting 400 pounds. Thats a difference worth mentioning.

[snarky]

The ATS 2.5, 2.0T and 3.6 all weigh 3300 - 3400 range so I don't see why 3400 - 3500 is not possible....

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by snarky

The ATS 2.5, 2.0T and 3.6 all weigh 3300 - 3400 range so I don't see why 3400 - 3500 is not possible....

Just read any thread about 6th gen weight and you'll see. Pay particular attention to posts by well respected members that have explained in detail why there is no way in heck this car will way 400 lbs less. Cadillac uses premium lightweight materials that the average Camaro owner can't afford.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by snarky

The ATS 2.5, 2.0T and 3.6 all weigh 3300 - 3400 range so I don't see why 3400 - 3500 is not possible....

Yes, for an equivalent 4 or 6 cylinder.

We know that adding the V8 and all it's necessary goodies add around 200 pounds to the Camaro today.

What everyone has been doing is exactly what you did, assume that because a 2.0T ATS weighs 3,400 pounds that you should be able to get a 3,400 pound SS Camaro. Nope. That would require a significant amount of premium materials and drive the price higher resulting in lower volumes, resulting in 2003 all over again. No thank you.

In today's market, 200 pounds is a big deal. Yes, I realize there is a small sample of people that want an engine, transmission, brakes and a steering wheel. That does not make a great car, though. In fact it would make a car that would be so s%&(ty that only a few would buy it. Think COPO volumes. A great car for the few that need that.......a crappy car for pretty much anyone that also likes to drive to work everyday, go on a weekend trip once in a while. There has to be the ability to provide the features that most people want in a car.

I hate to remind you guys, but most Camaro owners don't even know this site exists...or any Camaro site for that matter. To most, it's a really nice car they enjoy owning and driving and as long as it's economical, the insurance premiums are decent and it is reliable, they'll keep driving it. But that's all it means to most buyers or lessees. No mods, no track days. Those are the bread and butter customers GM has to attract with this new car. It simply has to be a great car first, then a great Camaro.

So the Camaro needs to be a simply awesome coupe. The V6 does in fact have to compete with not only the Mustang, but also Honda Accord Coupe. It just has to be better on so many levels that the minimalist crowd will be disappointed. My guess is they will be the only ones disappointed, because I am expecting some pretty great stuff coming our way.

As for the safety stuff, well get ready for the mandates. Once you see statistics that cars with active safety features save lives, they will become mandatory. It's coming.

[TehFedora]

If the 'nanny' features become a standard, please put them on a different fuse so I can pull it and drive my own car...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by TehFedora

If the 'nanny' features become a standard, please put them on a different fuse so I can pull it and drive my own car...

In the end, if you can put away your ego (not an insult, I'm guilty too) you will find that unless you get your paycheck from the company with a logo on the hood of your car...................the nannies make you a better and safer driver. It's tough to admit it, but pretty sure you and I can't out brake ABS. And for the most part unless you've already f*^$ed up, active handling doesn't rear it's ugly head. If active handling invades your driving you are most likely doing so beyond your capability.

99% of drivers will be better for it. And I'm not a 1%er.

Best example is ABS and traction control on superbikes. A few people in the world can manage a 2 wheel drift. The rest are better served with technology that helps manage the business when they get over their heads.

Doesn't mean everyone wants it and that's ok.

[newb]

I tell people all the time that self driving cars of the future are not that far away. And you can be mad if you want, but the drivers will be the dangers on the road. Not the computer controlled cars.

I am impressed by 200 lbs. In car terms today, that's impressive. Given this car will be better in every way compared to my beloved 1LE almost makes me want one. But I hate car payments so I can't wait to pay mine off.

I challenge all of the naysayers to list a lighter car with better performance for the same price. Not a lighter car that seats 2. Not a lighter car that has 200 hp. Not a $100k car. Under $40k and performs better and weighs less. Take your time... I'll wait...