[arpad_m]

If someone doesn't want to watch the whole thing, here is the gist.

"...I have to say, getting out of that [Mustang] and into this [Camaro]... it is like getting out of a pickup truck and into a Porsche. Like, the difference is shocking. This [Camaro] is such a brilliantly tuned chassis, the steering is excellent, the damping is excellent, the weight distribution is fantastic, I love the way it turns and brakes and steers and accelerates, everything about it is great. I just love the car, honestly ------ this [turning to the Mustang] you can rev it with the key, and I've heard they put more screens in it this year."

"...if you just want a car that looks cool, sounds cool, makes you feel good, and is very-very quick in a straight line, has a naturally aspirated V8, this [Mustang] ticks all of the boxes."

- T. Holland

Oh, by the way, yes, the Mustang won the drag race by 0.1 or 0.2 seconds. On the track, the Camaro ran a 1:11.83 to the brand new Mustang's 1:14.17 hot lap.

[CTRifecta]

Great review, to be fair, the dark horse is more the 1LE competitor, however it's much more expensive ..
I loved listening to the 1LE a10. Cracking off redline upshits.. almost made me regret my transmission order, almost...

[cellsafemode]

gm seems to only have enough attention for one performance sports car and that's never been the camaro.

definitely not interested in going Mustang. and by the time i am in the market for a new car it'll almost certainly be electric. i just assume by next car is some model that doesn't exist right now...cuz there's nothing on the market gas or electric that makes me eager to switch from a Camaro as my daily.

really nothing about the current vehicle market or near future makes me excited. it's all stupid trucks, suvs and mini suvs and all with a bunch of electronics nobody asked for to make sure you get the enjoyment of subscriptions in your 50k car.

[taylorforschool@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Thomas said getting in the SS 1LE after the Mustang was like going from a pickup truck to a Porsche. Hilarious.

I actually LOLd at that when I watched the video myself

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Oh, by the way, yes, the Mustang won the drag race by 0.1 or 0.2 seconds. On the track, the Camaro ran a 1:11.83 to the brand new Mustang's 1:14.17 hot lap.

And this is the thing in regards to sales. The average muscle car owner wants to go fast, and to beat the guy in the next lane. The Mustang gives you a great platform for that and the sky is the limit with the Mustang aftermarket. Most muscle car owners could care less about road course work….those guys buy Corvettes and Porsches. And the sales reflect that. Unfortunately this fixation with handling probably killed the Camaro. While we Camaro owners got one of the best platforms of all time, it just didn’t sell.

[m6-lt1]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

And this is the thing in regards to sales. The average muscle car owner wants to go fast, and to beat the guy in the next lane. The Mustang gives you a great platform for that and the sky is the limit with the Mustang aftermarket. Most muscle car owners could care less about road course work….those guys buy Corvettes and Porsches. And the sales reflect that. Unfortunately this fixation with handling probably killed the Camaro. While we Camaro owners got one of the best platforms of all time, it just didn’t sell.

I kind of agree with you in regards to most muscle car owners wanting more straight line performance versus handling but I can almost guarantee you that’s not what killed the Camaro. Most people buying a Mustang or Camaro don’t know that one of them is a car length faster than the other in the quarter. They just want something that looks good, is reasonably quick and easy to live with and unfortunately my 3rd point is what killed the Camaro.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I kind of agree with you in regards to most muscle car owners wanting more straight line performance versus handling but I can almost guarantee you that’s not what killed the Camaro. Most people buying a Mustang or Camaro don’t know that one of them is a car length faster than the other in the quarter. They just want something that looks good, is reasonably quick and easy to live with and unfortunately my 3rd point is what killed the Camaro.

Also true.

[ALMN]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

And this is the thing in regards to sales. The average muscle car owner wants to go fast, and to beat the guy in the next lane. The Mustang gives you a great platform for that and the sky is the limit with the Mustang aftermarket. Most muscle car owners could care less about road course work….those guys buy Corvettes and Porsches. And the sales reflect that. Unfortunately this fixation with handling probably killed the Camaro. While we Camaro owners got one of the best platforms of all time, it just didn’t sell.

Well please keep in mind that the straight line performance only applies to mustangs with automatic 10 speed 3:55 gears not regular 3:15s. How many of the mustang owners are going to add that option? Also according to all comparison tests and even Motortrend sums it up, manual vs manual camaro is faster than all mustangs. With the manual transmission dying and from an enthusiast stand point, there will be lots of people purchasing these cars with a manual transmission. No offense to automatic owners but the fun and engagement factor for the manual is irreplaceable in my opinion, plus around 20 extra whp is a bonus due to less driveline losses. Camaro also comes with Tremec transmission in all manual trims compared to MT82 mustang.

[cellsafemode]

manual transmissions aren't needed to have a fun and engaging car. going to tracks is. otherwise the experience of a fun and engaging car is what you can get away with on public roads.

most, probably like 99.9999% of drivers will never and have never taken their car to a track. and so the difference something like manually shifting gears with a pedal plus stick vs not doing that or using just a paddle/switch and not a foot is irrelevant.

that's why manuals are phasing out. that's why the market for these kind of niche cars is shrinking. but why they are being replaced with suv's and such is entirely due to the companies selling them wanting more profit.. and selling niche cars doesn't get them that as much as selling the crap that the majority of drivers want. everything is basically fast enough now... the public can't justify not also having all the other stuff they want too in a car.

[JamesNoBrakes]

This is why teslas are winning.

[CHASLT1]

I have had two GT's. A 03 and 2015. The 03 had no power and the power down low in the 2015 was not thrilling. Up high it was fine but my 2013 C6 had so much more lower end grunt and handled better. My 2021 LT1 was also much better and handled about as good as my 2013 C6 did.

[paradigm]

Originally Posted by CTRifecta

Great review, to be fair, the dark horse is more the 1LE competitor, however it's much more expensive ..
I loved listening to the 1LE a10. Cracking off redline upshits.. almost made me regret my transmission order, almost...

You won't regret it once you start driving it. The A10 off the redline upshifts sounds amazing, but I would never give up the Tremec 6-speed for one.

[Roostie]

Originally Posted by LT14EVA

The Dark Horse should perform better but I think Msrp will be $65-70k.

Yes, I just built one online in the configurator, and it was $69k. At 2 tons, that thing will be a tire eater if you track it - high consumable costs.

[Roostie]

Originally Posted by m6-lt1

I haven’t even finished watching it yet but I loved when James said the Camaro is going out with a whimper which is what we’ve all been saying. The way Chevy is letting the Camaro go out should be illegal.

I will push back on this common point of view. The way that the Camaro measures up in tests against other cars shows that it hasn't needed major upgrades since the 1LE packages debuted in 2017. They are selling every Camaro they make, what economic purpose would there have been - at least in recent years with supply chain issues - to significantly alter it? There would have been no real ROI.

Also, the biggest fault that the Camaro has - poor visibility - could only be changed with a new chassis. And I don't think any Camaro since maybe Gen3 has had good visibility. So it's unlikely GM had any interest in fixing that issue.