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Old 06-26-2022, 03:58 PM   #155
carguy55

 
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The latest Camaro V4 base tune is 08-26-21

https://www.dscsport.com/calibration-files
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Old 08-17-2022, 11:15 AM   #156
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DSC Sport controller for sale $1100

Bought it a year ago. Sold my camaro. Works great. I have several tunes written for VIR. Worth 2 seconds per lap and alot of predictable stability.

Free Shipping in USA.

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Old 11-18-2022, 02:00 PM   #157
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So bringing this thread back from the dead, I'm looking to buy the DSC V4 controller snice I do feel like it will be an improvement on track over stock. The issue that has me thinking is that if your not an engineer or software developer you can't tweak the settings without screwing up. Plus I have a ZL1 with 1le front aero and APR wing and some suspension mods. Does anyone know where would I start with calibration?
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Old 03-27-2023, 02:06 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmojo View Post
It is a complex product and has gone through multiple base tune revisions. I don't have lap to lap comparisons, but from a driver feedback perspective:


1. More stable under heavy braking conditions and less nose dive.
2. Improved weight transfer on corner exit.
3. Ability to tweak the front/rear dampening to fine tune understeer.
4. There is a launch control feature that temporarily puts the shocks into drag mode with a throttle blip.
5. You can zero the mag ride shock ride height in the software.
6. On the street, the ride is more comfortable and has better handling. It adjusts to different driving conditions.

Cons:
1. I'm a mechanical engineer that had a vehicle dynamics class in college. The software is difficult to navigate for me.
2. Minor changes require you to update entire tables.
3. Tracks that have elevation changes can create a "floaty" feeling.
4. The last 6th Gen Camaro tune was updated in Feb of 2020 and is common across the SS and ZL1.

For tuning on my ZL1 with 1LE aero and 1LE sized Goodyear 3R's, I've reduced the base tune front shock stiffness by 25-50 mA to tame understeer. It is a relatively minor change. <Edit> The file name below says reduced OVERSTEER, because I went down to 1700 mA and then back up to 1725 mA. The base tune is 1750 mA. The rear shocks are unchanged from 1400 mA.
Hi, can you confirm if these final conclusions of yours based on your experience with the DSC controller were all based off of using just the stock generic calibration DSC provides, or your own alterations and adjustments or finally lastly, someone else’s calibration tune?

The reason I ask is I just want to know if your results would at all be influenced by your own abilities versus someone else’s.

I am only thinking of potentially going with the DSC controller if I can easily and simply use someone else’s proven calibration tune. If you did that already, and these are still the results you got I would like to know that. Also if using someone else’s calibration tune is still very difficult to do, that would be another reason for me not to go this route, because I do not have the patience for complex detailed things like this.
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Old 01-11-2024, 11:02 PM   #159
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This is incorrect. Simple physics. The breakaway friction is the sum of friction on 4 wheels. The lateral breakaway friction is higher when weight distribution on the weighted plane is 50/50 vs 30/70.

The claim of higher g achieve by a dynamic suspension is possible if the damper reacts fast enough to not allow more weight to shift out of the 50/50 balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
The added lateral G's had nothing to do with the controller. That is a function of tire grip, unless the car was skipping on the road in stock form.

Those lateral G improvements came from a more aggressive camber setting and probably better grip from the first time you took those readings.
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Old 01-12-2024, 08:07 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wenlyone View Post
This is incorrect. Simple physics. The breakaway friction is the sum of friction on 4 wheels. The lateral breakaway friction is higher when weight distribution on the weighted plane is 50/50 vs 30/70.

The claim of higher g achieve by a dynamic suspension is possible if the damper reacts fast enough to not allow more weight to shift out of the 50/50 balance.
Simple physics tells us that a damper has no control over steady-state weight transfer. Even in transient cornering, dampers can only influence how weight is apportioned between diagonal corners (LF:RR, RF:LR), not how much total weight transfer takes place. The same is true of springs and sway bars in steady-state cornering. Simple physics dictates that the amount lateral and longitudinal weight transfer - and therefore the amount the weight distribution changes from static - is dictated solely by the CG, the magnitude of lateral or longitudinal acceleration, and track width or wheelbase.
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Old 01-12-2024, 10:27 AM   #161
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Suspensions are dynamic

It's been a long time since my suspension design class in college, but the suspension system should be considered a dynamic system with dampening. It requires complex modeling. Over-dampened or under-dampened systems will not react as intended for the range of designed inputs. Electronically controlled shocks allow for variable dampening for a greater range of inputs. There is no technically "steady state cornering" in a real-world race-track scenario for system response modeling.

From a practical perspective:
1. Shock adjustments are beyond the capabilities of most grassroots track drivers.
2. The DSC software is not user-friendly and has a steep learning curve.
3. The DSC module takes in more inputs than the factory mag ride controller, so dampening (or dampening bias) can be tweaked for g-force, braking, and accelerating.
4. The factory mag ride system is primarily based on wheel position and likely rate of wheel position change.
5. The DSC box allows better weight transfer under acceleration and braking.
6. The DSC box allows you to tune the front/rear dampening to adjust oversteer or understeer bias. This is beneficial if the tire width is changed from square to staggered.
7. Without proper knowledge and experience, shock adjustments will be frustrating, take much track time for experimentation, and could worsen things.
8. Shock adjustments can be beneficial in specific driving situations or after other suspension system modifications.The factory system is designed primarily as a road going vehicle. Although, the ZL1 1LE is an exception and doesn't have electronically adjustable dampening.


A suspension is a dynamic, not static, system. Adjusting the dampening can adjust the rate of change of tire loading. Optimizing the load across all four tires during cornering or the rear tires during acceleration will produce the best performance.




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Old 01-12-2024, 10:36 AM   #162
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I own a copy of this book although it would probably melt my brain now.



Race Car Vehicle Dynamics


https://www.sae.org/publications/books/content/r-146/


Written for the engineer as well as the race car enthusiast, Race Car Vehicle Dynamics includes much information that is not available in any other vehicle dynamics text. Truly comprehensive in its coverage of the fundamental concepts of vehicle dynamics and their application in a racing environment, this book has become the definitive reference on this topic. Although the primary focus is on the race car, the engineering fundamentals detailed are also applicable to passenger car design and engineering. Authors Bill and Doug Milliken have developed many of the original vehicle dynamics theories and principles covered in this book, including the Moment Method, "g-g" Diagram, pair analysis, lap time simulation, and tire data normalization. The book also includes contributions from other experts in the field.
Chapters cover:
The Problem Imposed by Racing
Tire Behavior
Aerodynamic Fundamentals
Vehicle Axis Systems
and more
For nearly 30 years, Race Car Vehicle Dynamics has been produced on an off-set press with Smyth Sewn binding. The ongoing supply chain issues in the printing industry have made it necessary for SAE International to temporarily modify the way this book is manufactured. Like all new SAE International books, Race Car Vehicle Dynamics will be printed using state of the art digital printers with high quality adhesive binding. The cover process will remain the same. We will be closely monitoring the printing industry and shift back to off-set printing and Smyth Sewn binding as soon as possible.
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Old 01-12-2024, 01:00 PM   #163
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I have a current model/current software DSC controller for sale for $1k if anyone is interested.

I like it and think it's a great concept, I was definitely considering buying the DSC coilover system but ended up going with a conventional 2-way RR setup from MCS. I just don't have enough time to test and make the most of the DSC.

I do think the OEM track and sport programming from DSC is very good. For street use tour is more critically damped while GM's setup is more overdamped. TBH, I think GM's low speed damping in tour mode is excellent and better than DSC, but it's not quite as compliant. DSC tour mode is even smoother though, better for highway cruising. If I hadn't gone with conventional shocks I could see tuning tour mode to taste, it wouldn't be that difficult. I don't have enough data to say much about DSC track vs OEM. I've tracked both setups though, and am happy with both, DSC is a little better in some regards, OEM in others I suspect DSC is a little better overall but idk for sure. Feel and laptimes don't always match up...
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Old 01-12-2024, 08:02 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmojo View Post
There is no technically "steady state cornering" in a real-world race-track scenario for system response modeling.
This is true. However, that still doesn't change the fact that neither springs nor dampers can change the lateral or longitudinal weight transfer of a car during any direction of acceleration.
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Old 01-12-2024, 09:29 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Msquared View Post
This is true. However, that still doesn't change the fact that neither springs nor dampers can change the lateral or longitudinal weight transfer of a car during any direction of acceleration.
I thought drag cars use softer rear sus to maximize weight transfer during acceleration, does this apply to track cars or is the sus movement too small to make a difference?
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Old 01-12-2024, 10:20 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC113 View Post
I thought drag cars use softer rear sus to maximize weight transfer during acceleration, does this apply to track cars or is the sus movement too small to make a difference?
Drag cars use a hard (at least in compression) rear suspension and/or more than 100% anti-squat to maximize the impact of the rearward weight transfer that is already taking place...or in the top classes they have no suspension at all. Suspensions can't change the amount of weight transfer that happens, but they can change the rate at which the transfer gets to the contact patches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badmojo
I own a copy of this book although it would probably melt my brain now.
I forgot to mention that I own a copy of Race Car Vehicle Dynamics and actually did read it cover to cover. The world would be a better place if everyone did that! My son has it now.
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Old 01-12-2024, 10:30 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msquared View Post
Drag cars use a hard (at least in compression) rear suspension and/or more than 100% anti-squat to maximize the impact of the rearward weight transfer that is already taking place...or in the top classes they have no suspension at all. Suspensions can't change the amount of weight transfer that happens, but they can change the rate at which the transfer gets to the contact patches.
Interesting... thanks!
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Old 01-13-2024, 10:36 AM   #168
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Dave, it helps to think of squat as the car's suspension actually trying to pick the rear tires up off the ground rather than as the result of weight transfer. In most situations in most RWD cars, squat is caused by both. But the result is always the same: squat actually unloads the rear tires as it happens, rather than loads them. Once the suspension reaches "full squat" (static), then the full tire loading from the weight transfer occurs - but until the suspension stops moving. In any car with less than 100% anti-squat (almost all of them), you can set the parking brake and try to accelerate and the rear will still squat, even if the car doesn't roll. That's the suspension trying pull the tires up into the wheel wells, and it hurts drive traction. In cars with more than 100% anti-squat, the back end will lift up instead. That's what drag racers really want. You'll never see a serious drag racing car squat on launch - you mostly notice the front end rise.
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