[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I don't think that anyone is losing their minds with the C8 performance because we all understand that it is a mid engine platform which has huge advantages, even when compared to C7 Z06 and ZR1 models, never mind Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger models.

My minds still intact here. Bravo Corvette. For moving to Mid engine super car sh!t! Double bravo for keeping it affordable! I would have bought a Corvette years ago. If I could fit my Jason Voorhees sized body in one.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Honestly, nobody needs a Mustang. Camaro, Vette, Challenger. These are purely emotional decisions and we buy what we like.

I have owned Honda, Ford, Chevy, GMC, Jeep, and BMW in my day and Im still only in my 30's. So that list will only grow more diverse as companies continue to offer different cars.

The 500 doesn't use the Voodoo, and I am pretty sure the vibrations from the FPC are the root cause of the issues in the Voodoo. I am much less concerned with the 500's version of the 5.2 block(Predator?).

Voodoo block. Coyote style cross plain crank. Chevys going bigger than 5.2 with the 5.5. Will they figure out how to keep it from vibrating?

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I've been out of this thread too long and trying to catch up. I wish he would post this, but we all know he's lying so he tries to ignore it and let it die.




Exactly what Robbie said about the kid not being a racer. Road course takes a way more talented driver than drag strip. Granted it does take skill to launch well, but clearly the GT500's launch control also eliminates 90% of that skill (possibly more on a prepped surface).


But whoever said something about your extremely short sentence posting was right. That. Shit. Is. Annoying.

Even though most of this is true, you know what's very weird? Your statement should actually be "the G3R TIRE is better in the quarter". Everyone knows tire for tire the regular ZL1 is a better drag car and here is the weird part. How is the PSC2 equipped CFTP not going to produce better quarter times than the PS4S equipped GT500? My answer is the CFTP will produce a better time on a non-prepped surface, so if the latest C&D test was the CFTP, the standard GT500 will be slower than the ZL1s 11.4 on a non prepped surface!
None of that actually matters because if anyone is serious about drag racing any of these cars they will have drag radials. Also ZLE and CFTP guys should remove the aero stuff, at least the wing, for a trip to the strip. I'm mad at myself for not removing my ZLE wing from my car the one time I went to the strip in the last 2 years.

I still think the ZLE is going to beat the CFTP around most tracks.

Very good point!

That's a F%&k ton of quotes.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

I've been out of this thread too long and trying to catch up. I wish he would post this, but we all know he's lying so he tries to ignore it and let it die.




Exactly what Robbie said about the kid not being a racer. Road course takes a way more talented driver than drag strip. Granted it does take skill to launch well, but clearly the GT500's launch control also eliminates 90% of that skill (possibly more on a prepped surface).


But whoever said something about your extremely short sentence posting was right. That. Shit. Is. Annoying.

Even though most of this is true, you know what's very weird? Your statement should actually be "the G3R TIRE is better in the quarter". Everyone knows tire for tire the regular ZL1 is a better drag car and here is the weird part. How is the PSC2 equipped CFTP not going to produce better quarter times than the PS4S equipped GT500? My answer is the CFTP will produce a better time on a non-prepped surface, so if the latest C&D test was the CFTP, the standard GT500 will be slower than the ZL1s 11.4 on a non prepped surface!
None of that actually matters because if anyone is serious about drag racing any of these cars they will have drag radials. Also ZLE and CFTP guys should remove the aero stuff, at least the wing, for a trip to the strip. I'm mad at myself for not removing my ZLE wing from my car the one time I went to the strip in the last 2 years.

I still think the ZLE is going to beat the CFTP around most tracks.

Very good point!

I thought the same about the psc2's, but some Ford engineer claimed the ps4's have basically the same longitudinal grip and that there is no tire disadvantage for the more straight line oriented base car.

That remains to be seen, especially on an unprepped surface. The ztk zr1 with the psc2's ran faster than the low wing car in motortrend testing after all.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I don't think that anyone is losing their minds with the C8 performance because we all understand that it is a mid engine platform which has huge advantages, even when compared to C7 Z06 and ZR1 models, never mind Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger models.

Some of these same guys that understand the ME advantage apparently don't understand a 110 hp advantage or dct advantage from their absolute fanatic posts about the gt500s acceleration advantage over the zl1.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

That's a F%&k ton of quotes.

Haven't been in this thread in awhile!

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I thought the same about the psc2's, but some Ford engineer claimed the ps4's have basically the same longitudinal grip and that there is no tire disadvantage for the more straight line oriented base car.

That remains to be seen, especially on an unprepped surface. The ztk zr1 with the psc2's ran faster than the low wing car in motortrend testing after all.

I think i read that too, but I don't see how it is possible when the PSC2 is just a plain stickier compound.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I can see that being the case for some who value a backseat over build quality and interior materials etc.

I think the buyer for a $100K track beast/daily driver is a small market though, but nonetheless you point out a very distinct advantage the 500 could have if it matches Z06 track performance while offering more DD comfort.

Very, very small market indeed.

[ZRacerLE]

If the gt500 CFTP equals the lap times of the C7Z, I predict the advantage of the gt500 will be the ease of getting it to the limit over the C7Z. Neither have a back seat, so a wash there. The GT500 CFPT will have the same rarity as the ZLE unlike the C7Z as well.

[NW-99SS]

GT500 CFTP needs to beat a ZLE A10 on a road course before we even consider going against the older C7Z.

IF the Mustang crowd agrees it should be compared to a C7Z, then it better at least be the Z07 package equipped one. Please read my IF statement carefully, as I am NOT saying the Mustang should be compared to a Vette, but price point dictates curious pairings.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

GT500 CFTP needs to beat a ZLE A10 on a road course before we even consider going against the older C7Z.

IF the Mustang crowd agrees it should be compared to a C7Z, then it better at least be the Z07 package equipped one. Please read my IF statement carefully, as I am NOT saying the Mustang should be compared to a Vette, but price point dictates curious pairings.

Sure. I agree there's a chance the ZLE A10 comes out on top, but I'm giving Ford the benefit of the doubt that they made sure the GT500CFPT would consistently beat it. If so, then at least in my mind, it needs to be at least as fast as the $100K+ C7Z Z07. If not, I don't think it will sell very well. We should all hope it does. It would force Chevy to up their game even more. Now... where's Dodge in the lap times race? Need them to seriously step it up.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Sure. I agree there's a chance the ZLE A10 comes out on top, but I'm giving Ford the benefit of the doubt that they made sure the GT500CFPT would consistently beat it. If so, then at least in my mind, it needs to be at least as fast as the $100K+ C7Z Z07. If not, I don't think it will sell very well. We should all hope it does. It would force Chevy to up their game even more. Now... where's Dodge in the lap times race? Need them to seriously step it up.

Dodge is absent in lap times.

I have doubts about the CFTP besting the ZLE in any meaning way despite the massive price difference.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SSDan

More than you could possibly imagine!

BlaqWhole has 869 posts in this thread and you have 388.

Whenever I am bored I check in on this thread for entertainment.

So much energy expended over the debated .1 of a second here and there.

Amazing! Press on.

Looks like I have some catching up to do! Guess that is because I only really argue with Blaq and sometimes hotlap lol I let them take care of everyone else lol.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No. It's just not worth debating anymore. You guys will defend it until the GT500 is $120K MSRP and the GT is $60K. Which might be soon judging by the progression of things. Look at what you'd have to spend to match a $62K ZL1. Supply and demand right? That dictates price. If you don't think that years of demand resulting in people paying more for the car is even partially the reason the MSRP increased by $5K then fine. A few more years and the R will be $80K.

I am disappointed in Ford and the GT500. This recent 11.4 is what did it. And that was the CF version, am I correct? The money you have to spend to get decent performance out of a Mustang is too lopsided. So there's no more need to debate any of this anymore. I just want to see them take both cars around a track and that's about it.

I have already said somewhere in this thread or the numerous other GT500 threads that the CFTP car needs to put up some other worldly numbers to justify that price tag. So I wouldn't say I am defending it's price tag.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Cf version, Base version, whatever. The one they ran was a $94K car which will be more after options are added in. And it ran 11.4. The Base being faster has nothing to do with how this one performs. At that price there should be more than a driver's race difference between it and the ZL1 when both are subjected to the same testing regardless of the track. But there isn't. All that remains is to see what happens around a track. And frankly, I don't think it will have the stuff to win. Yet it costs more than what a fully optioned Z06 3LZ costs. So I have nothing left to debate.

Yes. Time to see what it will do on the track.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So I pretty much have all the info I need. Ford did do a great job. I will give them that. But in all truth, they merely just caught up to the rest of the competition. In a way it isn't their fault because the competition made leaps and bounds over the past few years. Dodge already reached the traction limits of RWD cars and Chevy proved what a very well designed car can do. By the time Ford got here there really was nothing left to accomplish except showing they can do it too.

technically you said the Ford was the fastest

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

. Sure, on a prepped track in great conditions it went 10.6. But the RE went 10.88 in similar conditions while the ZL1 did 10.9.

.

So technically they passed the competition haha

And so far in magazine testing faster than the RE same as ZL1 lol

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't think there is any chance you're wrong. And I'll go one step further and say it will have it's hands full with the ZL1 before it even gets to battle the likes of any Z06 past the 5th Gen. I don't think Ford wants to step in that territory.

I wonder what their take is on the C8 Z51 doing 3 tenths faster (11.1 vs 11.4). I'm just waiting for someone to get a C8 and break into the 10s.

the C8 Z06 is going to destroy everything in it's path until the ZR1 comes out.

Yeah the C8 Z51 is a missile. It blew past my expectations, really shows the benefit of the ME layout and DCT.

Just based on the comments from the few articles about the GT500 out already I have a little more faith in it against the ZL1 then you do. Might be blind faith, but that's just based on how it's been talked up so far.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Just FYI C&D got 11:80 @ 125 out of the RE during their review.

So the GT500 definitely puts the power down better than the RE. Trap speed tells me the GT500 pulls better on the top end as well despite being down on power

Originally Posted by ST1LE

THIS.

With all the praising of the GT500 and what it can do with 760 HP @ $74K, you would think everyone, even the self proclaimed "car guys", would be losing their minds at what the C8 does with 495 HP @ $60K. THAT is much more impressive than the GT500, and honestly makes the 500 seem a bit disappointing as you have said.

I get the interest, the 500 is an awesome car and fits very competitively in the segment, and we don't even have track times yet, so the potential to impress even more is there.

That said, I also don't really see what people are so wild about. People are acting like something about the 500 is groundbreaking and it isn't at all. It is just another awesome choice in an already awesome and competitive segment, and it is the LAST to the market.

The ME Vette though, THAT is groundbreaking, new, and very impressive for the money. VERY.

Ford will likely never have an answer for the C8, with that ME, it is like Ford is in 2020 and GM is in 2040, from a performance standpoint. The GT500 will rarely beat the C8 on the streets, if ever considering the ease of traction in a ME layout.

Ford: "OMG, look at our new GT500 it's so amazing and only costs $74K!"
GM: "Hold my beer."

The 500 would be way more fun to drive though, I will admit that, and that is very very important in a buying decision. Does it make it worth $74K? Not to me personally, especially with only a DCT option.

Honestly though, all these cars are really freaking awesome.

Ford will never have an answer for the C8. I think the C8 truly is amazing, the performance at the price and just the fact that is a ME car for under 100 is nothing short of amazing. Price wise it's unbelievable, but to me it doesn't diminish what the ultra pony cars are. The C8 doesn't make me think less of the ZL1, GT500, Hellcat/RE or that they are disappointing. They are still pushing the envelop of what people thought a pony car could be and look at the cars they can hang with now and beat. As you said having all of them available as a choice is simply awesome.

Originally Posted by newmoon

I don't think that anyone is losing their minds with the C8 performance because we all understand that it is a mid engine platform which has huge advantages, even when compared to C7 Z06 and ZR1 models, never mind Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger models.

The C8 definitely blew away what I thought it would do. If anything it flipped what I thought it would do. I was expecting better lap times(just given GM history) and slightly better acceleration. Instead we got insane acceleration and slightly better lap times. it really is an amazing car and really showcases the benefit of the ME layout and like I said above, the fact that it's out there for it's price is crazy.

If anything I think hype may have died down just because all the info is out there, its been tested a bunch already but now with the strike and it getting delayed till at least February it's just kind of on the back burner. Once it starts popping up to the public and in more tests I think it will go full swing again on how impressive it is.

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

GT500 CFTP needs to beat a ZLE A10 on a road course before we even consider going against the older C7Z.

IF the Mustang crowd agrees it should be compared to a C7Z, then it better at least be the Z07 package equipped one. Please read my IF statement carefully, as I am NOT saying the Mustang should be compared to a Vette, but price point dictates curious pairings.

This^ Just please magazines test them the right way full tests.

ZL1 A10 vs GT500 VS RE

ZLE A10 VS GT500 CFTP

Then we go from there

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Sure. I agree there's a chance the ZLE A10 comes out on top, but I'm giving Ford the benefit of the doubt that they made sure the GT500CFPT would consistently beat it. If so, then at least in my mind, it needs to be at least as fast as the $100K+ C7Z Z07. If not, I don't think it will sell very well. We should all hope it does. It would force Chevy to up their game even more. Now... where's Dodge in the lap times race? Need them to seriously step it up.

If Ford can figure out how to make a 4000 pound Mustang handle. Maybe Dodge can figure out how to make this big girl move also?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ger-acr-rumor/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

If Ford can figure out how to make a 4000 pound Mustang handle. Maybe Dodge can figure out how to make this big girl move also?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ger-acr-rumor/

Toss this log on the fire https://driving.ca/dodge/challenger/...r-upcoming-car
and I think you have the makings of a cool story.

[rocket403]

There have been some rumors that Dodge is working on an ACR Challenger, but the people that are buying the Challenger are doing so with the knowledge that it is bigger and has a bit of extra weight.

With Dodge Challenger sales past Camaro and getting close to the Mustang the only people really complaining about the Challenger are Camaro and Mustang owners.