[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A GN, and the Ecoboost Mustang, are as far apart as two cars can be.

Didn't Ford try to make the Probe their new performance car in the 90s? What happened? What happened a few years ago when Ford built the 4 and 6 cyl trucks to outperform the Coyote powered trucks? If you think for a second that Shelby owners will be perfectly happy with the GT outperforming them then you guys are delirious. Ford has been tiptoeing around the Shelby guys for a while and that is the only reason why the PP2 is as lame as it is. And they will continue to tiptoe around them. Go on the Shelby forums. If you think those guys would appreciate the GT that they look down on being better than the car they spent all that money on then you guys are out of your minds. And like I said, if any one of you actually had something other than a GT then you'd be singing a different tune.

And you guys would absolutely have a problem if the Coyote which y'all love soo much got it's ass kicked by a 4 cyl Mustang. Heck you guys have been crying for the few years that even the V6 Nismo 370Z was closer in the quarter mile to the GT than the GT was to the SS and could whup it around a track easily. You guys were more a competitor for them than for us and it stung soo bad that the entire GT had to be revised. LOL!!

How about that newmoon?? How about the fact that a Honda Accord in 2004 could beat a GT? How about the 370Zs being on your tails? Maybe you guys are just used to shitty performance...

Please get off of your meds, who cares about a 2004 Honda Accord! Yes the Shi!!y performance which presently offers a GT faster than the SS, and very soon a 500 which will be much faster than the ZL1.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Please get off of your meds, who cares about a 2004 Honda Accord! Yes the Shi!!y performance which presently offers a GT faster than the SS, and very soon a 500 which will be much faster than the ZL1.

You're my favorite

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Please get off of your meds, who cares about a 2004 Honda Accord! Yes the Shi!!y performance which presently offers a GT* faster than the SS, and very soon a 500 which will be much faster than the ZL1.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I'm not sure if the guy is delusional or an expert level troll. Maybe both.

[Fraxum]

That ^ 4 posts up.

It is hard to believe this thread is still holding up. You guys are awesome.

In the end, the newest ZL1, Hellcat, and the new GT500 all offer the driver, with one mistake, to quickly be a part of the natural selection process. Nothing wrong with being the third fastest (slowest but not slow) of three "Holy Sh*t" fast cars.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Please get off of your meds, who cares about a 2004 Honda Accord!

A lot of Mustang guys cared when the Accord was faster than some of the GTs and keeping up with the others. Same thing seemed to happen back in the 90s when the Prelude was giving it to the GT, lol!!

Originally Posted by newmoon

Yes the Shi!!y performance which presently offers a GT faster than the SS

And faster than the GT350 which is pathetic. It is a driver's race with the SS and the GT. Which means that all those revisions Ford did and they even benchmarked the SS and at their very best, they simply made it a driver's race. Nobody here even cares. We all said that the GT should be faster considering they had all time to revise it and that it has more HP. LOL!! But just make sure you option it correctly...

Originally Posted by newmoon

and very soon a 500 which will be much faster than the ZL1.

And it'll cost at least $15K more...so the question is if it'll have the performance to justify the extra money. And will it beat the RE or ZLE? Answer is "no"!!

[BlaqWhole]

This is why I dislike Ford and will probably never buy another one. If I spend $60K on a car, that is hard earned money for something that isn't even a necessity. So I should have something to show for it. Now if some punk kid scrapes money to buy a base model GT and that thing is faster than my top tier $60K GT350, then that would be stupid. I don't care who's name is on the car. I didn't pay for an emblem. I paid for the performance. And the money I spend for performance should be directly proportionate to the performance I get. No $30K car should outperform a $60K car on any level. And that shows how backwards Ford is. Either that or they overcharged for the GT350. CF wheels, FPC, 8250 rev limit...all that just to have a GT with none of those things and less HP that can match it and Ford ends up having to cripple it just so GT350 owners won't feel stupid for buying that thing and paying markups. It is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me. And again, I'll repeat that I am glad I never seriously considered buying a GT350. It is the only $60K vehicle that loses to a car with less HP and half the price. That's like being the kid in town who everyone beats the shit out of and then even his little brother beats the shit out of him, lol!!

And the crazy thing is, shaffe is the only one who admits that Ford was short-sighted in going after the 5th Gen Z28 and that held the GT350 back which in turn holds back the GT. Only one of them can admit the obvious.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I wouldn't care honestly, if I did I would trade it in on the EB, not a problem. Heck GM did this in the 80s with the GN and a turbo 4 or 6 cylinder beating up on 8 cylinders would be kinda cool.

Do you see me chasing the latest and greatest thing I'm still driving a 2013 model that cost me about what a new GT or SS would cost, i'm not BH because something faster. There is always going to be something newer and faster, drive what you enjoy. How much money do you want to spend to make sure you have the latest & greatest obviously in your case Blaq a lot.

Yes I'll spend a lot. I work hard for my money and I feel that for my money, I deserve the absolute best. And I accept nothing less than that. I don't go out spending my money for an expensive car just for something cheaper to beat it. If that was the case then I would just buy the cheaper car right off the bat.

Originally Posted by shaffe

I wouldn't say I am defending it, I would say based on experience with Ford, that is how they operate and I am used to it.

01 Bullitt becomes standard GT in 02/03/04
08/09 Bullitt becomes standard GT in 2010.
5.0 comes out in 2011, and for what its worth much better 3.7 V-6 replaces the 4.0 boat anchor.

01 Cobra to 03 Cobra

09 GT500KR - the ultimate mustang with like a 30K premium over a GT500, becomes the standard GT500 in 2010. 2011 GT500 gets updated block and heads has even more power, and then the 13/14 come out.

2011/12 5.0 rated at 412, 13/14 rated at 420, 15-17 435, 18 460.

2018/19 Bullitt almost certainly guaranteed to become the "base" GT. The last time the GT went 4 years without an update was 05 to 09. Since then it has been almost every 2 years something changes.

I know it's not apples to apples what you are talking about but say you bought your car at the end of march then april 1st, theres much better financing available and huge rebates. Should they be worried about the people that just bought cars no because they already got their money.

Hell continuous updates used to be the norm back in the 60s. Hell back in 69 if you bought a SS396 Chevelle you were king of the hill until 1970 then you could get the LS6 454.

None of that is the case here. Updates are fine. GTs get updates. Cobras were updated. ETC. Was a SN95 GT faster than a SN95 Cobra tho? Was the S197 GT faster than the S197 GT500? That is the point and it is completely different than what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Same model year yeah that would be a bad look and probably piss off alot of people. Now this is Ford's issue is that they dragged ass so long on the 500 that they kept the GT350 soldiering on longer than it should have. Ford also should have set their heights higher as well, as Hotlap loves to point out they targeted a car that was going out of production.

It should have been done in 17. Look at the 18 GT350, it didn't get any of the interior updates the GT got. It wasn't until 19 the GT350 got some tweaks to increase performance. It is a total lame duck model that exists for the pure fact of saying we still have a model above the GT until the GT500 gets here. the GT has basically gotten all of the trickle down tech from the GT350 but like you said Blaq it is handicapped still. To protect the 350 for the same model year. That is the key in all this. If they let the GT be all it could be(had necessary coolers and everything) and it beat the 350 and 350R then yeah that would be anarchy. they are probably going to wait for the 350 to be out of production for a year or two, then slap the Bullitt engine in the GT and give the PP2 the necessary coolers.

Thank you. That is all we're trying to say. These guys are trying to act like it's fine if a GT outperforms a Shelby and that nobody would care. If that happened, people would be pissed off. Regardless of who the money goes to, people paid markups for a car that was on a level that they thought was unattainable for other cars. And now here is a GT that can do all of that without that expensive FPC engine, without those expensive CF wheels, without the 8250 RPM, and without being stripped down as much...and with a much lower price tag. Only an idiot would be ok with that. It's bad enough that people paid ZL1 prices and more for the non-R spec'd GT350. It's bad enough that the R version got beaten by the cheaper ZL1 MSRP for MSRP. And it's even bad enough that the GT can beat it in a straight line. If the GT all of a sudden could beat it around a track (which it could do if it had coolers) then the Ford camp would be up in arms. None of this is good.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Same model year yeah that would be a bad look and probably piss off alot of people. Now this is Ford's issue is that they dragged ass so long on the 500 that they kept the GT350 soldiering on longer than it should have. Ford also should have set their heights higher as well, as Hotlap loves to point out they targeted a car that was going out of production.

It should have been done in 17. Look at the 18 GT350, it didn't get any of the interior updates the GT got. It wasn't until 19 the GT350 got some tweaks to increase performance. It is a total lame duck model that exists for the pure fact of saying we still have a model above the GT until the GT500 gets here. the GT has basically gotten all of the trickle down tech from the GT350 but like you said Blaq it is handicapped still. To protect the 350 for the same model year. That is the key in all this. If they let the GT be all it could be(had necessary coolers and everything) and it beat the 350 and 350R then yeah that would be anarchy. they are probably going to wait for the 350 to be out of production for a year or two, then slap the Bullitt engine in the GT and give the PP2 the necessary coolers.

I don't think I am defending it, I am sure it looks that way but that is just the way Ford has done things for the last 15 years I have been around Mustangs.



Same model year yeah you are right I would be mad. I don't think there is anyway to defend that. Now if I had seen the EB getting continuously updated, getting trickle down tech from the GT while the GT sat idle getting 0 updates I would probably be able to see the direction it's heading, but yeah same model year I would probably be mad.

The key difference here is the GT is not faster than the 350 yet. In the 1/4 yeah in the right option group as hotlap loves mention, and that doesn't matter because the 350 was not set up for the 1/4 mile. but around the track the 350 is still faster and better suited to it because the GT lacks the coolers. Now like I said same model year yes that is a problem. I mean I don't buy a car every year, when I buy one I keep it for 5-7 years normally so what they do after I buy it doesn't really concern me.

It is bad if it happens in the same Generation if you ask me. Now maybe in the case of the S197, if the 13 or 14 GT could beat the earlier GT500s, that is one thing (despite my earlier comment). You figure that much time and things kinda should catch up. I'd be pissed but you're talking about a good 7-8 years difference. If it is within 2-4 years then that is inexcusable.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yes I'll spend a lot. I work hard for my money and I feel that for my money, I deserve the absolute best. And I accept nothing less than that. I don't go out spending my money for an expensive car just for something cheaper to beat it. If that was the case then I would just buy the cheaper car right off the bat.

None of that is the case here. Updates are fine. GTs get updates. Cobras were updated. ETC. Was a SN95 GT faster than a SN95 Cobra tho? Was the S197 GT faster than the S197 GT500? That is the point and it is completely different than what you're talking about.

Thank you. That is all we're trying to say. These guys are trying to act like it's fine if a GT outperforms a Shelby and that nobody would care. If that happened, people would be pissed off. Regardless of who the money goes to, people paid markups for a car that was on a level that they thought was unattainable for other cars. And now here is a GT that can do all of that without that expensive FPC engine, without those expensive CF wheels, without the 8250 RPM, and without being stripped down as much...and with a much lower price tag. Only an idiot would be ok with that. It's bad enough that people paid ZL1 prices and more for the non-R spec'd GT350. It's bad enough that the R version got beaten by the cheaper ZL1 MSRP for MSRP. And it's even bad enough that the GT can beat it in a straight line. If the GT all of a sudden could beat it around a track (which it could do if it had coolers) then the Ford camp would be up in arms. None of this is good.

It is bad if it happens in the same Generation if you ask me. Now maybe in the case of the S197, if the 13 or 14 GT could beat the earlier GT500s, that is one thing (despite my earlier comment). You figure that much time and things kinda should catch up. I'd be pissed but you're talking about a good 7-8 years difference. If it is within 2-4 years then that is inexcusable.

You keep posting the same shit over and over again about “i’d be pissed or “X” car owner would be pissed , but seem to have a hard time understanding that Ford doesn’t give a shit if you get pissed or not. They have demonstrated this time and again. Nobody is defending it we are just pointing out the obvious, you just seem to want to try and convince people it’s a bad strategy and apparently Ford disagrees.

[Ethanolic]

I haven’t been on Hellcat.org in awhile but I assume that place is burning to the ground since the 1320 will beat a base hellcat in the 1/4... for $15k less. Blaqwhole shouldn’t you be over there pitchfork in hand?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

You keep posting the same shit over and over again about “i’d be pissed or “X” car owner would be pissed , but seem to have a hard time understanding that Ford doesn’t give a shit if you get pissed or not. They have demonstrated this time and again. Nobody is defending it we are just pointing out the obvious, you just seem to want to try and convince people it’s a bad strategy and apparently Ford disagrees.

Are you that much of a blind follower of them that you openly acknowledge that the don't give a shit about their customers who paid over $60K MSRP plus markups and you're fine with it? Wow. And people say I'm a fanboy. If GM ever pulled that shit I'd turn my back on them and would not return until they got their shit together.

Ford put out a low performing, underwhelming, overpriced vehicle. It got spanked by every competitor in it's same price range. Even the SLE could beat the standard GT350 and keep up with (if not outright beat) the R. Then it got beat in a straight line by the GT. Then the PP2 had to be crippled so it wouldn't beat the Shelby. And Ford doesn't give a shit because that is how little respect they have for the name, heritage, and their customers. And you guys are fine with that. The fact that a kid in a $30K base model GT can beat the snot out of a $60K+ Shelby. Man I'd feel like shit if I bought one of those cars and was showing it off to my friends just to get beaten like that.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

I haven’t been on Hellcat.org in awhile but I assume that place is burning to the ground since the 1320 will beat a base hellcat in the 1/4... for $15k less. Blaqwhole shouldn’t you be over there pitchfork in hand?

What I find hilarious is that you think the 1320 can beat a Hellcat. Where did you see the 1320 beat a Hellcat in an official test?

[BlaqWhole]

I was going to buy a new fully loaded GT500 but maybe I'll just wait an extra year for the next base model GT...

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Are you that much of a blind follower of them that you openly acknowledge that the don't give a shit about their customers who paid over $60K MSRP plus markups and you're fine with it? Wow. And people say I'm a fanboy. If GM ever pulled that shit I'd turn my back on them and would not return until they got their shit together.

Ford put out a low performing, underwhelming, overpriced vehicle. It got spanked by every competitor in it's same price range. Even the SLE could beat the standard GT350 and keep up with (if not outright beat) the R. Then it got beat in a straight line by the GT. Then the PP2 had to be crippled so it wouldn't beat the Shelby. And Ford doesn't give a shit because that is how little respect they have for the name, heritage, and their customers. And you guys are fine with that. The fact that a kid in a $30K base model GT can beat the snot out of a $60K+ Shelby. Man I'd feel like shit if I bought one of those cars and was showing it off to my friends just to get beaten like that.

What I find hilarious is that you think the 1320 can beat a Hellcat. Where did you see the 1320 beat a Hellcat in an official test?

You still don’t get it do you. Keep stomping your feet and telling us how mad you’d be.

They got their $60k worth and If they paid markups they are fools.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

You still don’t get it do you. Keep stomping your feet and telling us how mad you’d be.

They got their $60k worth and If they paid markups they are fools.

Well as long as you guys are happy with getting embarrassed when the $60K top Mustang is getting curb stomped by a base GT then good for you. We don't have those problems over here. Over here you get the performance you pay for as opposed to paying $40K more for standard base model level performance.