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Old 09-27-2017, 12:53 AM   #1
JaxChris

 
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Turn 2019+ into a Camaro "Grand Sport"

Please unpackage the Camaro and drop the base prices on the refresh. Mustang wins the bottom end in the 6th gen battle and that is what is driving their sales to squash Camaro. And low sales means low aftermarket attention, which hurts enthusiast buyers as well.

And on the subject of unpackaging the Camaro, some of the higher end Camaro trims could benefit from an organized hierarchy of option packages. I've read the articles where people at GM has mentioned stripping down the entry points a little more. I think it would actually be better if there was no more LS/LT/SS trimming at all. Make them all Camaro again and move the engines into the option packages.

The Camaro could take one more bit of inspiration from the Corvette -- the Grand Sport. It is the best Corvette, hands down. They let you have everything from Z06/Z07 without the premium of paying for the boosted engine. If Camaro was a truly modular ordering form, I think it would shake down like this:

-Engine
LTQ
LGX
LT1
LT7 (rumored)

-Transmission
TR3160
TR6060 (requires V8 engine or V6 & 1LE)
TR6070 (requires LT7 or LT1 & 1LE)
10L80
10R90 (requires LT7 or LT1 & 1LE)

-Chassis
Coupe
Convertible (not available with 1LE)

-Tier 1 Packages
Performance Tech = HUD, 8"+ Display, Upgraded DIC, Drive Modes
Convenience Tech = Homelink, Heated/Vented Seats, Automatic Climate Control, Front&Rear Parking Cameras, Auto Dim Mirrors
Safety Tech = Front&Rear Parking Sensors, Blindspot, Dual Stage Airbags, Inflatable Seatbelts, Adaptive Cruise Control, Auto High Beams, Auto Wipers

-1LE (requires Performance Tech & NPP plus either MRC or DSV)
Expanded Drive Modes, ZL1 suspension parts, eLSD, ZL1 fascia/fenders, expanded heat exchangers/capacity, wider wheels & tires

-FFM
Flex Fuel Management, enables dual fuel maps to support higher output with E85, at a lower fuel economy

-MRC
Magnetic Ride Control, independent option

-NPP
Dual Mode Exhaust, Requires Performance Tech (not available on LTQ)

-NAV
Navigation software & GPS antenna upgrade

-PDR
Requires 1LE & NAV

-Z28
Higher displacement NA engine, independent option, no prereq's

-2LE
ZL1-1LE aero upgrade plus even wider wheels & tires, requires 1LE

-DSV
ZL1-1LE suspension upgrade, requires 1LE

-AMP
Upgraded radio amplifier & speakers

-AMB
Ambient lighting kit (tell HELLA they need to offer some underbody LED strips that clip into that signal wire, they promised them 3 years ago and never delivered)


The ZL1 is untouched in this because, like the Z06, it is the whole enchilada and should be max kitted like the SS sedan was, leaving only roof/transmission choices plus a track pack (1LE) and possibly a ZR1-esque higher output engine package.



---------------------------------

Old Questions - bad thread title
Pretty much exclusively around the 6th Gen refresh, since nothing can be done about the bugs in the 2016.

1. Will the 8L90 be replaced with the 10L90, following Ford's update?
2. Will we finally be able to get 1LE/PDR with an automatic? Why even have a track mode on the automatic if we can't have the track package?
3. Can the differences between 1SS and 2SS become smaller package groups instead of all or nothing? Not really loving the leather in my 2016 2SS, would prefer sport cloth ventilated seats.
4. 360 degree camera or at least a front lip camera? Paired with a forward ultrasonic parking sensor that would activate the camera on the infotainment display would be a nice approach.
5. Interior cabin, more storage place? You can't even put your phone inside the center console and there is no cable channel in the armrest, after 2 months of Android Auto use, my armrest now rattles around.
6. Can we option a factory flexfuel package that includes the sensor and populates the map with a higher power output from the factory?
7. Instead of the Z/28 as a whole other vehicle, could we see a higher output NA engine option for the SS instead, that can be stacked on top of all the other packages?

Last edited by JaxChris; 01-07-2018 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:10 AM   #2
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*Bump*
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:31 AM   #3
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I like it, but suspect when you unbundle from more standardized configurations the price would go up quite a bit.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:09 AM   #4
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The SS 1LE already is the Camaro Grand Sport you want. It has all the ZL1 goodies minus the LT4. Granted unlike the Grand Sport, 1LE is stick only.

And as already pointed out, an a la cart approach increases production costs for GM. Reason why the RS package is standard on the SS is because 80% of people who bought an SS opted for it in the 5th gen days. So to simplify production, they made it standard on the SS this generation.

I still don’t get the fascination people have with the 7 speed stick. It’s there for fuel economy reasons. It has no real advantage performance wise over the 6 speed.

Last edited by ChevyRules; 01-07-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:20 AM   #5
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Safety. It's a trap!

Interesting idea. Safety, Sport, and Convenience. Just don't call it a safety package. Nobody likes to say or think safety is optional on a car. Just call it Tech.

A few comments on Adaptive cruise/AEB. It's expensive to build (as a MFR) and to own. It alone will add a minimum +$3-4k to the MSRP and look like crap on the front of the car and screw up cooling and aero if not done right. So now we're approaching $80k MSRP for a loaded ZL1 Vert with AEB and smart cruise. I have a smart cruise sedan without AEB ('12 Genesis) and can tell you I wouldn't pay for it on my ZL1. Just not something I'm going to use since I don't DD the car. I also recently had to have the ABS valve/actuator module replaced at 66k miles for $2500 covered under an extended warranty I purchased earlier in the year. Electric smart cruise ABS units receive a daily duty cycle in a smart cruise car vs how often they're needed in a standard ABS/AEB car... which means they gotta be bulletproof. In 2012, Hyundai's were not. But I digress.

Yes I get the point is to cut MSRP on the base model. So start out with a car that meets only the basic regulatory requirements. So what would that look like and how much would you retail it for with 3 or 4 base engine configs?

Understand however that the mylink interface is customized for each unique config... so 6 or 8 engine/tranny choices times 3 trim packages times at least 4 more options (NPP, PDR, NAV, AMB) is a lot of programming to create and support in the field: Pretty quickly we're approaching 100 variants even with exclusions you state at least for just one car for one model year. How does Mary Barra justify this marketing experiment to the shareholders?

And isn't this was BMW and Porsche do? Basic car for $X then optioned out reasonably you're at 140% of X, which some find offensive. How do you beat them and Ford at that game at the same time and not have 250 variants you have to support?
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:27 PM   #6
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This thread is less of a question, and more of a request - on future product, which they can't/won't comment on.

Some of the questions at the bottom are good, though! But they need to be in individual threads.

I'll put this in the 6th gen General section for now. Al and the team regularly read the forum, outside of this section - so no worries if you're looking for an audience!
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:29 PM   #7
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camaro wins retail sales, so aftermarket should be fine. what is the aftermarket not currently addressing?

i dont think fleet owners put any aftermarket enthusiast stuff in their cars.
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Old 01-07-2018, 02:37 PM   #8
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I saw this in GM Authority. They are usually a reliable source of info.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/01/...hat-to-expect/
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverTaco07 View Post
camaro wins retail sales, so aftermarket should be fine. what is the aftermarket not currently addressing?

i dont think fleet owners put any aftermarket enthusiast stuff in their cars.
Winning retail sales doesn't impact accessories and aftermarket as much as total sales.

Remember, every fleet unit ultimately ends up in the hands of an individual. So total number on the road does impact the business case for the aftermarket.

That being said, Corvette isn't hurting in the aftermarket with 60% of Camaro sales. And saying the Corvette is selling at 60% of Camaro volumes, retail or not, is bad.
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Old 01-07-2018, 03:59 PM   #10
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The Grandsport is the Z06 without the LT4. I don't see what a ZL1 without the LT4 would offer the Camaro lineup that isn't covered by the SS 1LE.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:44 PM   #11
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I would love it but..... from an operational standpoint you create hundreds of different combinations rather than 10-20 standardized packages. I feel like the cost would go up if things were done like this.

You have to remember to, this is an enthusiast forum. While we would welcome with open arms option packages such as this, the average person just isnt going to care all that much. They would rather walk on to the lot and say whats the cheapest Camaro you have or I want a fully loaded car. That's my opinion though.

Full circle, I think if things were done this way we would be looking at some really expensive cars due to production costs.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:05 PM   #12
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Not going to happen. If anything for 2019 there will be even FEWER option and trim combinations.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:52 PM   #13
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I hate threads like this. You are asking for more options but complaining of a high price

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Old 01-07-2018, 08:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunkk View Post
A few comments on Adaptive cruise/AEB. It's expensive to build (as a MFR) and to own. It alone will add a minimum +$3-4k to the MSRP and look like crap on the front of the car and screw up cooling and aero if not done right.
It was only $1000 on my BMW 4. And if anyone is going to nickle and dime you for options, it's the Germans.


I'm not sure what this thread is about. Before the 2SS 1LE, there were some options you couldn't build, but that 2018 allowance has opened the flood-gates. Even before that, you could "build" the car minus the E-diff, with all the same parts, it just came out a lot more expensive. Now what? The 1SS is the lean racer, the 2SS has all the tech and goodies, there are plenty of V6 and other models, so you just order what you want and put the options on there. Learned a while ago that there's almost only one way to get the car you want, order it, otherwise hoping that it'll randomly have the features you want, especially if you are a car/driving enthusiast, is a lost cause.
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