[BlaqWhole]

In all seriousness tho...at $90K...would anyone over here buy one? I think it would be a good sell because it is new to the scene and is the highest HP Mustang ever. It is a hard sell because of the competition in the same price range. I also think that a lot of people who paid those markups for GT350(R and non-R) might be a bit apprehensive about paying that much for a GT500. Reason being is that the GT350 did not perform the way people thought it would when comparing the price to the cheaper ZL1. Then came all the problems that plagued those cars. As much as I'd love to consider possibly buying one, I just can't get around the thought that for $20K less a ZLE just might beat it. And a Redeye just might beat it. And those cars are rock solid whereas this Gen Mustang has seen many problems across each trim level. Will all of them really sell? If they do, will people really track them or will they sit in garages to be driven once a month? Lots of questions come to mind and I can't help but think that this might be the first Mustang with a Shelby name that might not sell as expected. At $90K, who really is going to buy the GT500? I don't think it'll be any gearheads. It'll probably be people cross-shopping Redeyes and Vette Zs.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm just going by what you guys have said in the past 2 years. "Econo-box", "parts-bin" special, "truck" engine...that's what you guys said. I never denied any of that. You're the one changing your story.

I didn't say any of those things. I like the ZL1 and what it offers performance-wise. I am just in a Mustang now so I defend the R when compared against it.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

In all seriousness tho...at $90K...would anyone over here buy one? I think it would be a good sell because it is new to the scene and is the highest HP Mustang ever. It is a hard sell because of the competition in the same price range. I also think that a lot of people who paid those markups for GT350(R and non-R) might be a bit apprehensive about paying that much for a GT500. Reason being is that the GT350 did not perform the way people thought it would when comparing the price to the cheaper ZL1. Then came all the problems that plagued those cars. As much as I'd love to consider possibly buying one, I just can't get around the thought that for $20K less a ZLE just might beat it. And a Redeye just might beat it. And those cars are rock solid whereas this Gen Mustang has seen many problems across each trim level. Will all of them really sell? If they do, will people really track them or will they sit in garages to be driven once a month? Lots of questions come to mind and I can't help but think that this might be the first Mustang with a Shelby name that might not sell as expected. At $90K, who really is going to buy the GT500? I don't think it'll be any gearheads. It'll probably be people cross-shopping Redeyes and Vette Zs.

At $90k I would rather have a Z06. Except at this stage in my life, I need a car I can put people (kids) in the back seat, so a Z06 is off the table for me for a while. And I can't afford a new 911 Turbo (~$162k), which offers crazy levels of acceleration (0-60 in 2.6 seconds) and is beautiful inside and out...

Because of the need for a backseat in that price range, that leaves me with
the top dog pony cars, Charger Hellcat, GTR (maybe, because base models start at $100k w/o destination, so it's quite a bit higher in price, with the track model being about $130k), and maybe 1 or 2 others (i.e., entry level 911). Of those, I would choose the GT500 - power, looks, style, etc. But, a base model with some tech features for about $80-85k would suit my desires. I might get one in a few years when my GT is a bit older.

Or...I'll just build a 600 hp N/A 5.0 when my warranty expires and call it good.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

In all seriousness tho...at $90K...would anyone over here buy one? I think it would be a good sell because it is new to the scene and is the highest HP Mustang ever. It is a hard sell because of the competition in the same price range. I also think that a lot of people who paid those markups for GT350(R and non-R) might be a bit apprehensive about paying that much for a GT500. Reason being is that the GT350 did not perform the way people thought it would when comparing the price to the cheaper ZL1. Then came all the problems that plagued those cars. As much as I'd love to consider possibly buying one, I just can't get around the thought that for $20K less a ZLE just might beat it. And a Redeye just might beat it. And those cars are rock solid whereas this Gen Mustang has seen many problems across each trim level. Will all of them really sell? If they do, will people really track them or will they sit in garages to be driven once a month? Lots of questions come to mind and I can't help but think that this might be the first Mustang with a Shelby name that might not sell as expected. At $90K, who really is going to buy the GT500? I don't think it'll be any gearheads. It'll probably be people cross-shopping Redeyes and Vette Zs.

As I said earlier, if I had the financial means to buy a 70,80 or 90K car as a toy I would not consider the GT500 Carbon Pack. the "Base GT500 at 75 maybe, maybe I would need to drive one and or get a ride in one but even then I don't know if I would pull the trigger. Even knowing that the GT500 would destroy a C7 vette I think I would still rather spend my money on the Corvette. And that is just because 1 Corvette has always been a dream car of mine, and 2 I don't think I could stomach paying that much for a Mustang, Camaro or Challenger. I don't care how fast they are, how fast they can lap a track or how many standard features they have. They are still just high performing versions of base model cars and I don't know if I could do it.

Hell even looking at GT or SS I don't know if I would feel comfortable paying over 40 for one of those lol

But again take that with a grain of salt because as someone who is not in position in life or financially able to purchase said vehicle I may look at it differently lol

as to whether or not the GT500 will sell, IMO it will sell just fine.

[72MachOne99GT]

Starts higher than I anticipated.

Going to need to administer a serious beat down against the ZL1 variations to justify that kinda coin.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Starts higher than I anticipated.

Going to need to administer a serious beat down against the ZL1 variations to justify that kinda coin.

It's a little over 10k more than the last 500. For this you are getting far superior engine, brakes, transmission, aero, suspension and tires. I think that the price is reasonable the carbon package is not though.

I also have a feeling that it will be a lot faster than we all think.

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

IIRC I guessed $70-72.5k base MSRP... I’ll take my cookie in chocolate chip.

Those option prices doh, wow.

The DCT is over $20k alone. I think C8 corvette buyers are in for a similar shock.

That DCT cost 20k?????????????????
You sure about that? No way Ford spent 20k for a transmission.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

That DCT cost 20k?????????????????
You sure about that? No way Ford spent 20k for a transmission.

Wow...that seems steep

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I have to agree with Blaq. For the price of this car with the carbon pack it better haul f****** ass.

That is absurd that it costs 18,500 they better know something we don't as far as performance because that is just damn crazy.

The base GT500 should beat the ZLE due to its “huge power advantage”. At $18,500, the carbon package should make it C7 Z06/Z07 “special”.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

As I said earlier, if I had the financial means to buy a 70,80 or 90K car as a toy I would not consider the GT500 Carbon Pack. the "Base GT500 at 75 maybe, maybe I would need to drive one and or get a ride in one but even then I don't know if I would pull the trigger. Even knowing that the GT500 would destroy a C7 vette I think I would still rather spend my money on the Corvette. And that is just because 1 Corvette has always been a dream car of mine, and 2 I don't think I could stomach paying that much for a Mustang, Camaro or Challenger. I don't care how fast they are, how fast they can lap a track or how many standard features they have. They are still just high performing versions of base model cars and I don't know if I could do it.

Hell even looking at GT or SS I don't know if I would feel comfortable paying over 40 for one of those lol

But again take that with a grain of salt because as someone who is not in position in life or financially able to purchase said vehicle I may look at it differently lol

as to whether or not the GT500 will sell, IMO it will sell just fine.

I feel the same way as you about the Vette. The thing is there are lots of deals for base model Vettes. I've seen Kerbeck in Atlantic City selling them for mid $40K to low $50K. Or you can get a used 17 and up 3LZ Z06 with very low miles for mid $60K. All very tempting. Plus the C8 is coming out so there will be even more deals on Vettes.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by newmoon

It's a little over 10k more than the last 500. For this you are getting far superior engine, brakes, transmission, aero, suspension and tires. I think that the price is reasonable the carbon package is not though.

I also have a feeling that it will be a lot faster than we all think.

Try 19k.

Last one started at 55, this one at 74.

Previous performance pack and track pck brought the coupes into the mid/upper 60s

This one stars at 74, has rougly 20k in performance upgrades, and that not even touching some f the other options that bring it over the 100k mark.

Will it be awesome? Damn, for that much I hope so!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The base GT500 should beat the ZLE due to its “huge power advantage”. At $18,500, the carbon package should make it C7 Z06/Z07 “special”.

Ha, except the GT500 actually has less torque than the ZL1. Heck, the new GT500 has very slightly less torque than even the '13/14 version. The power discrepancy between the GT350R and the ZL1 is much more significant than the power discrepancy between the ZL1 and GT500:

ZL1 has 23.5% more hp, and 51.5% more torque than the GT350R.
GT500 has 16.9% more hp, and 4% less torque than the ZL1.

The ZL1's torque advantage over the 350R is massive. In a different league.

That said, we shall see! The ZLE is a great machine and will be hard to beat without the right tires. I'm not sure the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires that come on the base GT500, while great street tires, will do it.

I still think the GT500 will be faster around a track than a ZL1, and the GT500 CF track package faster around a track than the ZLE.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ha, except the GT500 actually has less torque than the ZL1. Heck, the new GT500 has very slightly less torque than even the '13/14 version. The power discrepancy between the GT350R and the ZL1 is much more significant than the power discrepancy between the ZL1 and GT500:

ZL1 has 23.5% more hp, and 51.5% more torque than the GT350R.
GT500 has 16.9% more hp, and 4% less torque than the ZL1.

The ZL1's torque advantage over the 350R is massive. In a different league.

That said, we shall see! The ZLE is a great machine and will be hard to beat without the right tires. I'm not sure the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires that come on the base GT500, while great street tires, will do it.

I still think the GT500 will be faster around a track than a ZL1, and the GT500 CF track package faster around a track than the ZLE.

The sad part is that Ford had 6 years to get those numbers and that was the best they could do...625 TQ, a 180 MPH top speed, and a base price of $74K. Aside from the visibility issues with the ZL1 everyone was impressed with it from the day it hit the streets. A10 trans, 202 MPH top speed (198 MPH officially), 11.4 quarter mile which beat the Hellcat at that time, and the lap times it got were all impressive. All at $63K MSRP. The GT500 arrives several years later with less TQ than the ZL1, a much higher base price than even the ZLE, a 180 MPH speed limit, a shift knob...this things has disappointed several times already. At this point this damn car needs a win by knockout and it needs it bad. It won't be enough for the base to just beat the ZL1. it will have to destroy it. And the CF version will have to destroy the ZLE. I do not think it will be capable of those feats on a track. Maybe in a straight line it'll be ahead by half a second if it can hook. But that is going to put it against the Redeye. So the GT500 has it's work cut out for it. I don't have much faith in it. And it is in a tricky spot because even if it does destroy the ZLs then it damn well should have.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Ha, except the GT500 actually has less torque than the ZL1. Heck, the new GT500 has very slightly less torque than even the '13/14 version. The power discrepancy between the GT350R and the ZL1 is much more significant than the power discrepancy between the ZL1 and GT500:

ZL1 has 23.5% more hp, and 51.5% more torque than the GT350R.
GT500 has 16.9% more hp, and 4% less torque than the ZL1.

The ZL1's torque advantage over the 350R is massive. In a different league.

That said, we shall see! The ZLE is a great machine and will be hard to beat without the right tires. I'm not sure the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires that come on the base GT500, while great street tires, will do it.

I still think the GT500 will be faster around a track than a ZL1, and the GT500 CF track package faster around a track than the ZLE.

The GT350R weighed 245 lbs less than the ZL1 and costs $3,535 more. The advantage of its carbon fiber wheels, reduce rotating mass (-60 lbs), is proven by the gap the R puts on the base GT350. It also had the advantage of a 8,250 rpm, FPC engine designed specifically for the track.

GT350R: 3662 lbs / 526 hp = 6.96 lbs/hp.
ZL1: 3907 lbs / 650 hp = 6.01 lbs/hp.

$68,230 GT350R
$64,695 ZL1 M6

A full blown track car vs a base grand touring trim. In the 5th gen, you would have expected the lower powered, lower torque Z/28 to beat the GT500 even though they were equal weight.

Not let’s look at the GT500 vs ZL1 1LE

$73,995 GT500 base price
$1,500 Handling package
$1,595 Recaro
$77,090 total

$72,195 ZL1 1LE

$92,495 GT500 Carbon fiber track package

The base GT500 cost $4,895 more than the ZL1 1LE and makes 110 hp more. After all the M6G, torque doesn’t matter threads, are you really going to say Ford needs a car that costs $20,300 more (and 110 HP) to overcome a lack of torque?

I’m only asking that the Ford community live by the standard it set.