[BlaqWhole]

So can we get back to the GT500 now? What features will it have that might make it worth the MSRP and markups?

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Great a 11:50s time posted for the ZL1, look harder there was a review that got a 11.30s out of it I think. Still a long way off from 11.00s though.

And what was the Hellcat time in that article? 11.7? So that is your article from an official magazine test where the ZL1 was in fact faster than the Hellcat. Which is what you asked for.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

And what was the Hellcat time in that article? 11.7? So that is your article from an official magazine test where the ZL1 was in fact faster than the Hellcat. Which is what you asked for.

So do we now practice finding the slowest times posted and ignore the fastest times.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You mean the car that hasn't been made in 3 years? I was talking about cars being made now. Which, surprise surprise, the 5th Gen Z28 from 3 years ago was just as fast as Ford's current 6th Gen GT350R in the quarter mile despite having less HP.

the GT350 was released 3yrs ago and is as direct a competitor as you can find. Seems like a fair comparison and unfortunately the Z28 wasn't just as fast it was a .1 slower which in your words makes it "the worst at drag racing out of any Muscle Car that costs over $60K...and the slowest. That's for damn sure, lol!!!

...I agree with you for once. Unless you can think of another muscle car ever produced that cost over $60k and ran a slower 1/4 than the Z28? I'll wait.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

the GT350 was released 3yrs ago and is as direct a competitor as you can find. Seems like a fair comparison and unfortunately the Z28 wasn't just as fast it was a .1 slower which in your words makes it "the worst at drag racing out of any Muscle Car that costs over $60K...and the slowest. That's for damn sure, lol!!!

...I agree with you for once. Unless you can think of another muscle car ever produced that cost over $60k and ran a slower 1/4 than the Z28? I'll wait.

Show me one test where the GT350 ran 1 tenth faster than the Z28 when both were tested. And where has the GT350 ran faster than the 12.2 that the Z28 did? Still tho, one of the cars we're discussing caught fire, had every model recalled for fire hazard, has an oil consumption issue, and a whole slew of engine problems, and is current;y being made right now. That makes it worst than the Z28 because at least the Z28 will make it down the quarter mile without turning into a ball of fire.

So can we get back to the GT500 now? What nobody seems to be able to answer is why it took Ford this long to get the GT500 out. They apparently had test mules out since 2015. And the S550 was out a full year before the 6th Gen Camaro. So why was GM able to get the ZL1 ZL1 1LE, Z06, ZR1, and the GS out while the GT500 STILL isn't out? What happened that it took them this long and had to extend the entire Generation for a full year? LOL!!

[72MachOne99GT]

Probably several reasons it took so long.

First, to appease some of you, maybe someone in Ford wasn’t pleased with the performance that the GT500 was setting, so it was delayed a bit... The last time Ford delayed an SVT Mustang in 2002, a monster showed up in ‘03.

Second, it’s possible that Ford never intended an early S550 release.

Third, some people within the reliable rumor circle have suggested that the project was somewhere near the chopping block at some point during development. If the team was spent time unsure if the project was even alive, I can understand some delay.

Fords management has been a Circle Jerk for quite awhile, so it’s hard to tell what was going on behind the scenes.


I fully expect this car to surprise a lot of people. Will it run 10.0s, outperform a ZL1-1LE, and get better fuel mileage than a Hybrid all while being oriced at 50,000 dollars? I doubt it, and I’m sure that will fuel plenty of hate.

But expect a car that performs with all the big performers minus a track-prepped 9.65 Demon.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Show me one test where the GT350 ran 1 tenth faster than the Z28 when both were tested. And where has the GT350 ran faster than the 12.2 that the Z28 did? Still tho, one of the cars we're discussing caught fire, had every model recalled for fire hazard, has an oil consumption issue, and a whole slew of engine problems, and is current;y being made right now. That makes it worst than the Z28 because at least the Z28 will make it down the quarter mile without turning into a ball of fire.

So can we get back to the GT500 now? What nobody seems to be able to answer is why it took Ford this long to get the GT500 out. They apparently had test mules out since 2015. And the S550 was out a full year before the 6th Gen Camaro. So why was GM able to get the ZL1 ZL1 1LE, Z06, ZR1, and the GS out while the GT500 STILL isn't out? What happened that it took them this long and had to extend the entire Generation for a full year? LOL!!

Sorry it was 2 tenths... 12.1@119.6 vs 12.3@116.1 https://www.torquenews.com/106/ford-...trend-shootout

or if you prefer video https://www.motortrendondemand.com/d...28/0_094pqskj/


...So all your attempts to deflect again aside the Z28 reigns supreme as the slowest muscle car of all time above $60k. And that was the magical Z28 with 6% powertrain losses.

now for the GT500. nobody can answer why it hasn't been released because Ford hasn't said why. You can make up all kinds of theories why and proclaim all sorts of unfounded reasons, but end of the day you have no clue. Rest assured Ford has valid reasons though.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

So do we now practice finding the slowest times posted and ignore the fastest times.

You asked for a test showing the ZL1 was faster than the Hellcat. I assume you no longer have a point to make.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

I fully expect this car to surprise a lot of people. Will it run 10.0s, outperform a ZL1-1LE, and get better fuel mileage than a Hybrid all while being oriced at 50,000 dollars? I doubt it, and I’m sure that will fuel plenty of hate.

But expect a car that performs with all the big performers minus a track-prepped 9.65 Demon.

I don't think anyone will be surprised at all. I mean, it might be surprisingly unimpressive or it might surprisingly under perform given the amount of time it took to build it and the price it's gonna cost. I don't doubt that. But I for one will not be surprised because after this much time it damn well better be a top performer.

Based on how much time it took Ford to build this thing and if it comes in at $70K+ MSRP (which it will), that car needs to be a mid 10 sec quarter bone stock, have coolers up the ass, come fully loaded without having to add on a "tech" pack or "drag" pack or any such nonsense. It needs to not only beat the ZL1 in the quarter but it should also beat the ZL1 1LE around a track. It should be faster than a Demon. It should be consistent. And a year from now they shouldn't be blowing up on the track. But we all know that ain't gonna happen. I expect a low 11, maybe a high 10 if planets align. The ZL1 1LE will beat it around a track. The Demon and Redeye will beat it in a straight line. And it'll be more expensive than any of these cars. So to me it is already a failure.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Sorry it was 2 tenths... 12.1@119.6 vs 12.3@116.1 https://www.torquenews.com/106/ford-...trend-shootout

or if you prefer video https://www.motortrendondemand.com/d...28/0_094pqskj/


...So all your attempts to deflect again aside the Z28 reigns supreme as the slowest muscle car of all time above $60k. And that was the magical Z28 with 6% powertrain losses.

So 3 years ago a brand new 6th Gen GT350 with more HP was able to beat an outgoing 5th Gen Z28 that had already been out and unchanged for and had less HP. Got it. No matter what you say, you just keep making the GT350 look more and more pathetic. There is no excusing that car. But I do enjoy seeing you struggle to find excuses for it's piss poor performance.

Still tho, nobody was talking about 2015. As it stands, the GT350(R) is the only Muscle car that costs over $60K and can't break into the 11s. It is slower than even the GT by a lot. It can't beat the ZL1 at anything. The SS 1LE can match it. It is a fire hazard. It has engine problems like you wouldn't believe. And the only thing that it has a clear victory over is a car that hasn't been produced for years and was in it's last year of production on an outgoing chassis and design. Congrats bro. You REALLY showed me!!!!

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

now for the GT500. nobody can answer why it hasn't been released because Ford hasn't said why. You can make up all kinds of theories why and proclaim all sorts of unfounded reasons, but end of the day you have no clue. Rest assured Ford has valid reasons though.

I think the answer is obvious. How long does it take to go from a test mule driving around in the streets to that car actually making it out? It took nobody else this long. The only reason it took Ford this long is because they had messes to clean up, the GT had to be rebuilt, and the ZL1 was too much for them to even think about battling. Especially since they couldn't even handle the SS or SS 1LE for the first 3 MYs. And that is why you're soo steamed and trying to downplay the Camaro. Face it, GM slapped the crap outta Ford for bringing that S550 nonsense to the table and Ford has been reeling from it ever since. LOL!!

[72MachOne99GT]

Has to be faster than the Demon and the ZL1-1LE for a price under the 1LE. Nice.

Obviously this car is guaranteed to be an epic piece of shit in your eyes.


No need to look further than my signatures 2013 quote to get an impartial review from some people here.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Has to be faster than the Demon and the ZL1-1LE for a price under the 1LE. Nice.

Obviously this car is guaranteed to be an epic piece of shit in your eyes.


No need to look further than my signatures 2013 quote to get an impartial review from some people here.

I love how now suddenly the 500 has to be a master at all tricks. Why can't the ZL1-1LE run 11:30s like the standard ZL1? Why is a track version required for fast laps. Why can't the ZL1 run ZL1-1LE track laps?

So let me make sure I understand this. The base GT500 must have the suspension and aero required to run better than the ZL1E on track but must also run mid 10s 1/4 mile, even though the ZL1E runs 11:80s?

[72MachOne99GT]

Well, they’ve had forever to get it together.

Don’t forget price, if its not less than a standard ZL1, it’s a huge fail for Ford.

Holding a car to unrealistic expectations is certain one way to downplay anything it does.

[BlaqWhole]

They had 6 MYs to build the thing. There were test mules out back in 2015. Look at what GM did with a 1 year hiatus. So you guys can't say what took Ford all these years to come up with something, yet you wanna discount that it could have been that the S550 had soo many problems that they were spread too thin and the GT500 was a rush job, yet another comment you're saying that the GT500 will surprise a lot of people, but my expectations are too much? LOL!! Sounds like more excuses if you ask me.

And for the record, I said the price of it will be over $70K MSRP and you won't get one at MSRP at all. I never said it'll come in under standard ZL1 pricing. I fully expect it to be more expensive than the Redeye and that isn't even considering the markups.

So yes it will be a failure in my book. There will be a huge variance between what you're gonna pay for one and what it'll actually do. I think a lot of people will be disappointed. 6 years since the last one, 5 years in development, what, do you think it should just squeak by the ZL1 that had only a 1 year hiatus and has been unchanged since what will end up being 4 MYs before the GT500 gets released????

[7speed]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

Well, they’ve had forever to get it together.

Don’t forget price, if its not less than a standard ZL1, it’s a huge fail for Ford.

Holding a car to unrealistic expectations is certain one way to downplay anything it does.

How can they price it less than a GT350 which starts around $59k which is a little cheaper than a ZL1 ($61K)?


I think a GT500 will be at least more than GT350R ($67K) so probably won't be less than $70k to start.