[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Carzzy

Funny how the '23 Challenger is going out with a bang and the '24 Camaro is going out with a whisper!

To be fair, FCA, and now Stellantis, have had to constantly throw everything they can at the old LA/LD platforms to keep them relevant. Which, objectively, they've done magnificently.



gm on the other hand released a fantastic, Alpha based, Camaro to the market in MY '16. Then after a couple years, "abandoned" any continued development beyond the timelines that where planned and implemented at the 6th gen's inception. They were seemingly victims of their own success, in that releasing a vehicle that needed almost no improvements at all during it's lifespan to keep up with and continue to, in places, surpass it's competition left Camaro to a seemingly absurd place of becoming stale/stagnant.

[1fastz28]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

To be fair, FCA, and now Stellantis, have had to constantly throw everything they can at the old LA/LD platforms to keep them relevant. Which, objectively, they've done magnificently.



gm on the other hand released a fantastic, Alpha based, Camaro to the market in MY '16. Then after a couple years, "abandoned" any continued development beyond the timelines that where planned and implemented at the 6th gen's inception. They were seemingly victims of their own success, in that releasing a vehicle that needed almost no improvements at all during it's lifespan to keep up with and continue to, in places, surpass it's competition left Camaro to a seemingly absurd place of becoming stale/stagnant.

great take

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

gm on the other hand released a fantastic, Alpha based, Camaro to the market in MY '16. Then after a couple years, "abandoned" any continued development beyond the timelines that where planned and implemented at the 6th gen's inception. They were seemingly victims of their own success, in that releasing a vehicle that needed almost no improvements at all during it's lifespan to keep up with and continue to, in places, surpass it's competition left Camaro to a seemingly absurd place of becoming stale/stagnant.

I still maintain that GM screwed up the 6th gen in the following ways:

-It's much less usable as a coupe and daily driver versus the Mustang and Challenger. This has been beaten to death already but the shit trunk opening, worse visibility, worse backseats, and worse storage options can really turn buyers away.

-The Camaro SS was always more expensive than the V8 Mustang and Challenger. Chevy went too hardcore with the SS from the start. They should have offered the LT1 trim from the beginning. Most people shopping these cars did not need all the extra stuff on the SS. They don't track their cars. All the extra cooling, brakes, etc is useless on the street. Bigger rear tires are better but that's it.

-You can't get a V8 Camaro without creature comforts unless you pay A LOT more $$$ for a 2SS. Blind spot monitoring should have been standard in this car, across all trim levels. You can't get heated/cooled seats, steering wheel and other comforts unless you spring for the 2SS. There is a big price gulf between the LT1 and 2SS. There is no reason why those extra features should be tied to the 2SS, especially for people who don't need the extra performance cooling, bigger brakes, etc.

I know it's unrealistic for Chevy to update the 6th gen based on the visibility and practicality complaints. But they screwed up on V8 trim levels pricing and not making some stuff standard or available in cheaper packages.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

I still maintain that GM screwed up the 6th gen in the following ways:

-It's much less usable as a coupe and daily driver versus the Mustang and Challenger. This has been beaten to death already but the shit trunk opening, worse visibility, worse backseats, and worse storage options can really turn buyers away.

-The Camaro SS was always more expensive than the V8 Mustang and Challenger. Chevy went too hardcore with the SS from the start. They should have offered the LT1 trim from the beginning. Most people shopping these cars did not need all the extra stuff on the SS. They don't track their cars. All the extra cooling, brakes, etc is useless on the street. Bigger rear tires are better but that's it.

-You can't get a V8 Camaro without creature comforts unless you pay A LOT more $$$ for a 2SS. Blind spot monitoring should have been standard in this car, across all trim levels. You can't get heated/cooled seats, steering wheel and other comforts unless you spring for the 2SS. There is a big price gulf between the LT1 and 2SS. There is no reason why those extra features should be tied to the 2SS, especially for people who don't need the extra performance cooling, bigger brakes, etc.

I know it's unrealistic for Chevy to update the 6th gen based on the visibility and practicality complaints. But they screwed up on V8 trim levels pricing and not making some stuff standard or available in cheaper packages.

You can no longer get heated/ventilated seats in a $72k RST Tahoe. You have to go to an $85k Premier Tahoe. You can get heated in the RST, but not ventilated. These car manufacturers are ALL getting stupid.. $72k for any vehicle should get you everything, plus a jet engine that will take off when you deploy the wings. All these manufactures are starting to go for the high profit high trim only vehicles. Just saw a video on YouTube about now Toyota won’t be producing a sedan under $50k.

Going to be hanging onto my Tahoe, Camaro, Harley I own for a LONG damb time.


Per your last comment though. If they made those things available on the "cheaper packages" they would no longer have been "cheaper packages". As I just said above. They put them in the higher trim packages. Higher profit margins.

[AZCamaroFan]

they moved the 6thgen up in price because they were selling a lot of 2SS 5thgens. gm decided selling cars at a higher price point was okay to lose some sales if people viewed their cars as a higher quality, they just didn't see a the bottom dropping out after a couple years.
as for interior room no one uses the back seats in the challengers either. last time i saw anyone in a backseat of any of these cars was around 2 years ago and it was a Camaro6.
it's like the suv's . people buy big suv's even when they don't need all that space.
and there's no more space in a mustang backseat either.

[triggerjerk]

Originally Posted by jamala00

You can no longer get heated/ventilated seats in a $72k RST Tahoe. You have to go to an $85k Premier Tahoe. You can get heated in the RST, but not ventilated. These car manufacturers are ALL getting stupid.. $72k for any vehicle should get you everything, plus a jet engine that will take off when you deploy the wings. All these manufactures are starting to go for the high profit high trim only vehicles. Just saw a video on YouTube about now Toyota won’t be producing a sedan under $50k.

Going to be hanging onto my Tahoe, Camaro, Harley I own for a LONG damb time.


Per your last comment though. If they made those things available on the "cheaper packages" they would no longer have been "cheaper packages". As I just said above. They put them in the higher trim packages. Higher profit margins.

. . . And look where it got them. Supposed "higher profit margins" didn't matter in the end did it?

The Camaro SS (sports car) didn't have safety features a $34k Camry commuter car had. That would've gone a long way in convincing buyers to not worry about visibility.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

I still maintain that GM screwed up the 6th gen in the following ways:

-It's much less usable as a coupe and daily driver versus the Mustang and Challenger. This has been beaten to death already but the shit trunk opening, worse visibility, worse backseats, and worse storage options can really turn buyers away.

-The Camaro SS was always more expensive than the V8 Mustang and Challenger. Chevy went too hardcore with the SS from the start. They should have offered the LT1 trim from the beginning. Most people shopping these cars did not need all the extra stuff on the SS. They don't track their cars. All the extra cooling, brakes, etc is useless on the street. Bigger rear tires are better but that's it.

-You can't get a V8 Camaro without creature comforts unless you pay A LOT more $$$ for a 2SS. Blind spot monitoring should have been standard in this car, across all trim levels. You can't get heated/cooled seats, steering wheel and other comforts unless you spring for the 2SS. There is a big price gulf between the LT1 and 2SS. There is no reason why those extra features should be tied to the 2SS, especially for people who don't need the extra performance cooling, bigger brakes, etc.

I know it's unrealistic for Chevy to update the 6th gen based on the visibility and practicality complaints. But they screwed up on V8 trim levels pricing and not making some stuff standard or available in cheaper packages.

I get what you're saying but your pricing is off. The 4WD Premier comes standard with heated and ventilated seats at $72k. The RST is around $67k for 4WD.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

I get what you're saying but your pricing is off. The 4WD Premier comes standard with heated and ventilated seats at $72k. The RST is around $67k for 4WD.

I was going off what a local dealer has them for and what I've tried building an RST on chevy's site. I get if you get a base model with no other options at all, you can get it for $67ish.


A RST Tahoe
https://www.bergstromauto.com/Vehicl...-WI/5574399310


A premier Tahoe
https://www.bergstromauto.com/Vehicl...-WI/5575083600


Heated and ventilated driver and front passenger seats (RPO code KQV) are offered as standard equipment on the 2023 Tahoe and Suburban in the Premier and High Country trim levels, while the LS, LT, RST and Z71 trim levels don't offer ventilated seats in any capacity.Sep 12, 2022...

So yep... You have to go to the top trim levels to get ventilated seats.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by triggerjerk

. . . And look where it got them. Supposed "higher profit margins" didn't matter in the end did it?

The Camaro SS (sports car) didn't have safety features a $34k Camry commuter car had. That would've gone a long way in convincing buyers to not worry about visibility.

Correct, it didn't matter in the end, and I don't think if the lower trim levels had some of those options it would have changed the outcome in the end. I don't think the current Camaro being ended has to do with sales as much as it has to do with company direction moving forward. Even the Corvette as we know it today (ICE) will come to an end. Look Dodge sports cars sales were much better. They killed them off too. Think it's just the direction of the auto manufactures going forward. Just made the decision easier for GM with lower sales. Let's face it... sport car, rear wheel drive, big HP enthusiasts like us are getting fewer and fewer each year. Add to that the push to a new power source... What you going to do... Is what it is...

I don't really believe you can compare an SS Camaro to a Camry. Maybe the SS doesn't have all the safety features of a Camry, but the SS Camaro also has all kinds of things not found in a Camry. 455 HP, 455 lbft torque. Track Ready... etc... They are not the same cars made for the same purpose. You should probably compare the Camry to say a Malibu price.

[The_DarkKnight]

fools, collectors edition just a color or stickers or both, no new mechanicals for a 6 month run, Mary Barra is scum and she hates you, there will be a new Camaro like the mustang mach-E, you will look like a modern Fonzie at future cars and coffee, but you'll be a real man, its disgusting to me they build a 6th gen, then just let it stagnate as sales drop, they do no engineering or marketing, that comes from the top, Mary Barra can suck it

[WhyUMad1LE]

Even 6 years later I feel that the 6th gen V8 is one of the best manual FR platforms on the market today. Then again, there’s barely any to choose from..

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

I still maintain that GM screwed up the 6th gen in the following ways:

-It's much less usable as a coupe and daily driver versus the Mustang and Challenger. This has been beaten to death already but the shit trunk opening, worse visibility, worse backseats, and worse storage options can really turn buyers away.

-The Camaro SS was always more expensive than the V8 Mustang and Challenger. Chevy went too hardcore with the SS from the start. They should have offered the LT1 trim from the beginning. Most people shopping these cars did not need all the extra stuff on the SS. They don't track their cars. All the extra cooling, brakes, etc is useless on the street. Bigger rear tires are better but that's it.

-You can't get a V8 Camaro without creature comforts unless you pay A LOT more $$$ for a 2SS. Blind spot monitoring should have been standard in this car, across all trim levels. You can't get heated/cooled seats, steering wheel and other comforts unless you spring for the 2SS. There is a big price gulf between the LT1 and 2SS. There is no reason why those extra features should be tied to the 2SS, especially for people who don't need the extra performance cooling, bigger brakes, etc.

I know it's unrealistic for Chevy to update the 6th gen based on the visibility and practicality complaints. But they screwed up on V8 trim levels pricing and not making some stuff standard or available in cheaper packages.

Don’t forget almost 3 years of A8 shudder. So embarrassing.

[mariojas]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

To be fair, FCA, and now Stellantis, have had to constantly throw everything they can at the old LA/LD platforms to keep them relevant. Which, objectively, they've done magnificently.



gm on the other hand released a fantastic, Alpha based, Camaro to the market in MY '16. Then after a couple years, "abandoned" any continued development beyond the timelines that where planned and implemented at the 6th gen's inception. They were seemingly victims of their own success, in that releasing a vehicle that needed almost no improvements at all during it's lifespan to keep up with and continue to, in places, surpass it's competition left Camaro to a seemingly absurd place of becoming stale/stagnant.

Relevant... meh. I had 2018 Charger Scat Pack, then 2021 Charger Scat Pack Widebody. When I bought that "old" 2022 ZL1 I was amazed - better interior, much better handling.
Dodge improvements were relevant only in cool factor department, nothing else.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Carzzy

Funny how the '23 Challenger is going out with a bang and the '24 Camaro is going out with a whisper!

To be clear, Dodge has nothing else. Durango and I think Journey is dead. So their hope with the 170 is likely to somehow connect to the replacement EV. More to come there I think.

Oh wait, the new Hornet?