Homepage Garage Wiki Register Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
#Camaro6
Go Back   CAMARO6 > Technical Camaro Topics > Camaro Issues / Problems | Warranty Discussions | TSB and Recalls


Bigwormgraphix


Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2022, 11:47 AM   #15
arpad_m


 
arpad_m's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 7,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctrlz View Post
GM has always attributed the failures to problems with the fluid, not the mechanicals. So, the question, in my mind, would be, "Did GM knowingly use a fluid they knew was hygroscopic?" I suspect not. So then you look to the fluid manufacturer for their specs on the fluid.
Here's a read way over the heads of any lawyers who ever get involved with this:
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
Thanks a lot for the article, ctrlz . I can reduce it to this one diagram and a paragraph from the conclusion :

The ingress of water as a contaminant results in short-term friction improvement followed by a steep, consistent degradation over time, ultimately resulting in permanently compromised clutch performance. This appears to corroborate GM's sole focus on resolving the fluid hygroscopy issue.

Code:
So the current study indicates possible two mech-
anisms of ATF degradation for water contamination:
(i) rapid reverse micelles formations (responsible for
the sudden increase in friction around 500 cycles in
Figure 3 due to the probable inadequate additive
action) and (ii) promoting aging (responsible for grad-
ually decrease in friction after 1500 cycles). The later
was considered as an impact of water since water eva-
porated during the test, but the degradation still pro-
ceeded and can also be responsible for the previously
observed fast degradation in the friction interfaces,
implies permanent change of the clutch system.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18

Last edited by arpad_m; 01-04-2022 at 06:35 PM. Reason: edited because I'm not an ungrateful, plagiarizing b**ch after all
arpad_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 12:26 PM   #16
KMPrenger


 
KMPrenger's Avatar
 
Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
Posts: 13,656
Adding to what was said above...quoted from elsewhere

Quote:
The new 10 speed that people seem to really like is internally almost identical to the 8 speed with some minor changes, the biggest being changing 1 of the gearsets to feature and additional clutch pack. The fluid flow, housing, asymmetrical pump are largely unchanged.
__________________
2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties
2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)
KMPrenger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 05:53 PM   #17
CHASLT1
 
Drives: 2021 Camaro LT1
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Tampa FL area
Posts: 629
No way i would touch a C7 out of warranty with a A8. Mine started the shudder at 400 miles on my new 2019 C7 and it should have had the latest fluid since it was built in Feb of 2019.
CHASLT1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 06:33 PM   #18
arpad_m


 
arpad_m's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 7,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLT1 View Post
No way i would touch a C7 out of warranty with a A8. Mine started the shudder at 400 miles on my new 2019 C7 and it should have had the latest fluid since it was built in Feb of 2019.
The newly formulated fluid that solves the issue, along with the requisite trans flush machine and exchange toolkit, began shipping to dealers in late January 2019. The process completed by the end of March 2019. The techlink bulletin about the latest fluid exchange was issued on Jan 31st, 2019.

It is entirely plausible that a vehicle built in Feb 2019 still received the old fluid—after all, I don't think GM would simply have dumped its fluid inventory down the drain, especially since the shudder affects a small percentage of 8L90 transmissions (and more, but still a minority of the lower spec 8L45 units).
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
arpad_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 06:53 PM   #19
raptor5244

 
Drives: 2021 Camaro ZL1
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLT1 View Post
No way i would touch a C7 out of warranty with a A8. Mine started the shudder at 400 miles on my new 2019 C7 and it should have had the latest fluid since it was built in Feb of 2019.
My 2016 2SS A8 started shuddering at about 2500 miles. There was no suggested fix back then so I traded it for a C7 with an M7. Now back in a 2021 ZL1 with the A10 and so far so good.
__________________
2002 Corvette Z06 - Black - Sold
2013 Camaro SS 1LE - Black - M6 - Sold
2016 Camaro SS - Mosaic Black - A8 - Sold
2017 C7 Stingray - M7 Coupe - Sold
2019 C7 Grand Sport M7 Vert - Sold
2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance - Sold
2021 Camaro ZL1 - Black - A10
raptor5244 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 07:17 PM   #20
mlee
CamaroFans.com
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 36,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1LEornothing View Post
Not surprised at all about the A8 issues, it is not just GM, several manufacturers have had issues with these 8, 9, 10 speed automatics. More is not always better.
NOT true at all.

The 8 speed is crap with the TC shutter and all, but the 10 speed has been a beast since day one in these cars.

I owned the 2nd production 10 speed for both Ford and GM and currently own another 10L90. Most definitely the automatic transmission of choice these days.
__________________
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2022, 09:32 PM   #21
arpad_m


 
arpad_m's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 7,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
NOT true at all.

The 8 speed is crap with the TC shutter and all, but the 10 speed has been a beast since day one in these cars.

I owned the 2nd production 10 speed for both Ford and GM and currently own another 10L90. Most definitely the automatic transmission of choice these days.
As quoted above, it seems to be 90-95% the same internally as the 8L90. I'll reread the trans sections of the service manual and promise to come back here to correct myself if that's not the case

We are all glad the 10L90 is such a beast, and I'll generously overlook minor glitches such as the 4-5 shift issues, lack of downhill grade engine braking, gear whine and factory overfilling problems. It is clearly the better transmission (I particularly love the extra gear between the 8L90's 4th and 5th), but the margin is grossly exaggerated. The shudder is the only real issue with the 8L90, there's no denying that GM dropped the ball hard on that one, but apart from that, it's a stout unit.

[There is a huge benefit to information and opinions being so readily available online, but one of the appalling downsides is how the internet magnifies extremes while erasing all subtlety and the middle ground like a pendulum with an excavator bucket attached... A10 = king of torque converted automatics, A8 = crap; ZL1 = royalty, anything less = crap etc. I don't see why the world would need to be binary to make sense.]
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
arpad_m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 05:15 AM   #22
Spaceme1117
 
Spaceme1117's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 Camaro SS, 2011 Corvette GS
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Erlanger, Kentucky 41018
Posts: 589
So glad a lawsuit has been filed. Can't wait to get my check 15 years from now for $0.81 and the lawyers get $50,000,000.00. Will be such a win for all the owners affected.
Spaceme1117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2022, 05:36 AM   #23
NashZL1
 
Drives: 2022 Camaro ZL1
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 61
^ What he said.

My 2017 Corvette Grand Sport has had no A8 transmission issues in 19k miles. Did have the flush and new fluid exchange done when it became available. I do know several other Corvette owners who had torque converters swapped and other issues.
__________________
Randy in Nashville
2022 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 A10
2020 Genesis G90 Ultimate
2019 Mercedes Benz SL450
2017 Corvette Grand Sport A8
2016 Hyundai Equus Ultimate
1995 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo
1971 Datsun 240Z
NashZL1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2022, 11:56 PM   #24
Strange Flavor
 
Strange Flavor's Avatar
 
Drives: 17 Fifty SS, 11 2SS, 91 LSX C1500
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 182
I had two flushes and a converter changed by 1200 miles. The shuddering showed up at 400. Definitely a huge issue, and I've had friends that have had the same issues. Funny when I hear things like majority don't have any issues. If I myself and three friends in two separate platforms have had the issue (Sierra, Camaro x2). That seems like a lot in a small sample size. I've had 4L60's give less problems than these and people love to hate those. That aside when the transmission is working it is a beast.
Strange Flavor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2022, 12:15 AM   #25
Camaro fanboy
 
Camaro fanboy's Avatar
 
Drives: 2017 2SS Arctic blue fully loaded
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 675
mine is perfection. way better then the 6 speed ayto in the gen5
__________________
Camaro fanboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 07:51 PM   #26
Fiyero88
 
Drives: 2018 Chevy Camaro 1LT
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: FL
Posts: 43
My 2018 Camaro has 40,000 miles on it. In the morning when the engines cold. It will literally almost throw me out of my seat leaving the driveway when it shifts between 1st and second. The dealer said that's normal, I said I've never driven a car that does that. They also did nothing because they said the tech couldn't recreate it. Well no duh they didn't let it sit overnight ��so they wouldn't be able to recreate it.
Fiyero88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 08:16 PM   #27
mlee
CamaroFans.com
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 36,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero88 View Post
My 2018 Camaro has 40,000 miles on it. In the morning when the engines cold. It will literally almost throw me out of my seat leaving the driveway when it shifts between 1st and second. The dealer said that's normal, I said I've never driven a car that does that. They also did nothing because they said the tech couldn't recreate it. Well no duh they didn't let it sit overnight ��so they wouldn't be able to recreate it.
__________________
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2022, 09:37 PM   #28
arpad_m


 
arpad_m's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 7,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero88 View Post
My 2018 Camaro has 40,000 miles on it. In the morning when the engines cold. It will literally almost throw me out of my seat leaving the driveway when it shifts between 1st and second. The dealer said that's normal, I said I've never driven a car that does that. They also did nothing because they said the tech couldn't recreate it. Well no duh they didn't let it sit overnight ��so they wouldn't be able to recreate it.
This is absolutely not normal. I had a 2018 V6 2LT with the 8L45 trans, and there was the occasional small clunk with the first 1-2 or R-D shift on cold mornings, but nothing like what you describe.

If not done already, get a transmission flush with the latest 2019 fluid (the applicable technical service bulletin is 18-NA-255), ask the dealer to put the trans in relearn mode and give it a little time to adapt, that may fix or mitigate it to a tolerable level.

My current 8L90 in the 2SS is literally perfect, no clunks, no lurches, no shudder, smooth partial throttle shifts in tour mode, raging beast in sport+performance shift mode at WOT.
__________________
2018 Camaro 2SS — G7E MX0 NPP F55 IO6
735 rwhp | 665 rwtq

Magnuson TVS 2300 80mm pulley | Kooks 1 7/8" LT headers | JRE smooth idle terminator cam | LT4 FS & injectors | TSP forged pistons & rods
JMS PowerMAX | DSX flex fuel kit | Roto-Fab CAI | Soler 95mm LT5 TB | 1LE wheels | 1LE brakes | BMR rear cradle lockout | JRE custom tune

1100 - 1/30/18 | 2000 - 1/31/18
3000 - 2/06/18 TPW 2/26/18
3400 - 2/19/18 | 3800 - 2/26/18
4300 - 2/27/18 | 4B00 - 3/01/18
4200 - 3/05/18 | 4800 - 3/14/18
5000 - 3/16/18 | 6000 - 3/19/18
arpad_m is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Post Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.