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Old 12-23-2021, 10:46 PM   #1
CDTKyle
 
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"Reduce Clutch Use" Under Accel

Hi all,

I have a 2022 2ss 1le with aprox 1900 miles on the odometer. I have the M6 transmission. Please keep in mind I've had several manual vehicles in the past, my last one with 45k trouble free miles.

I've ran into an issue over the past couple days. Under hard acceleration in 3rd or 4th gear around 4-5k rpm I will get a message on the DIC center "engine performance reduced, reduce clutch usage". My foot is totally off the clutch, and I have not launched hard or anything like that. It did it several days ago, was fine for a few days and did it again this evening. I do not think the clutch is slipping, if it is I cant tell. The only common denominator is it has been between 30-40 degrees out during both occurrences.

I do want to mention, the car has been fully up to temp both times this is happened, I had been driving 15+ minutes before any hard accel.

Do these clutches not like cold weather? Or is this a common problem? I will take it in for service if needed, but with the holidays it may be a bit before they can check it out.

Let me know what you think....
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Old 12-31-2021, 11:06 AM   #2
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Update:

Dealer has the car, they were able to duplicate the concern! They said they have never seen anything like it before, and have submitted a case to the field engineers for GM.
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Old 12-31-2021, 11:19 AM   #3
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Well, so much for dealer know-how. This is what's in the repair manual. Cut & paste doesn't format perfectly, sorry.
FYI, P17A2 = "clutch slip detected"

DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION > MANUAL TRANSMISSION PROTECTION
DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION
The engine control module (ECM) software provides protection features for the clutch and manual
transmission. The ECM uses various inputs to monitor clutch use and performance and transmission
temperature. ECM inputs include:
Clutch Pedal Position
Engine Speed
Engine Torque
Transmission Temperature (if equipped with transmission fluid temperature sensor)
Vehicle Speed
These features are designed to protect the clutch and transmission from driver misuse and high thermal
stresses. The ECM can provide the driver feedback through the driver information center (DIC) in an
effort to protect these transmission components from premature wear and failure.

DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION > MANUAL TRANSMISSION PROTECTION
DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION > CLUTCH MISUSE
Using the inputs, the ECM can detect driver clutch misuse. If the clutch pedal is partially applied for an
extended period of time, while the vehicle is being driven, a message on the DIC will be displayed to
alert the driver to release the clutch pedal.

DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION > MANUAL TRANSMISSION PROTECTION
DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION > CLUTCH SLIP
Using the inputs, the ECM can detect if the clutch is slipping under various conditions.
After a gear shift, with the clutch pedal released, and the engine under load; if the measured gear
ratio is excessively higher than the highest transmission gear ratio; the ECM will momentarily
reduce engine torque in an effort to reduce clutch slippage.
If the gear state changes, without the use of the clutch, while the engine is under load; the ECM will
momentarily reduce engine torque in an effort to reduce clutch slippage.
Driving with the clutch pedal fully released, and the engine under load; if the measured gear ratio is
excessively higher than the current transmission gear ratio; the ECM will momentarily reduce
engine torque in an effort to reduce clutch slippage. Additionally, if excessive clutch slip events
occur, the ECM may set DTC P17A2.
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Old 12-31-2021, 12:30 PM   #4
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If clutch is slipping w/o any pedal input, then yeah it's probably bad and needs to be replaced. Not a common problem AFAIK.
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Old 01-01-2022, 03:55 PM   #5
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When my 2021 failed at the end of 2020 it was making a bad vibration that could be felt particularly in the clutch pedal and shifter. First thing the parts changers did was replace the clutch. Didn't fix my issue, but what I got from talking to the service writer is that these cars have a multi-plate clutch setup and they can have some issues from the factory including chattering and binding up and slipping.

Last edited by Sindri; 01-01-2022 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 01-02-2022, 09:09 AM   #6
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Should be warrantied if you are under a year. Don't quote me on that but I think it is.

-Geoff
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Old 01-03-2022, 11:30 AM   #7
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If the clutch is truly slipping I would first suspect a problem with the pedal linkage not fully releasing. After that, mangled pressure plate fingers due to damage at installation. This I really doubt from the factory.
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Old 01-04-2022, 04:53 PM   #8
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Defective clutch throwout bearing and oil contamination from a leaking seal are prime suspects.

Unfortunately, there are so few manual cars these days that dealer technician may be clueless.
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Old 01-05-2022, 08:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctrlz View Post
If the clutch is truly slipping I would first suspect a problem with the pedal linkage not fully releasing. After that, mangled pressure plate fingers due to damage at installation. This I really doubt from the factory.
Read this post and the one you posted above it. All makes sense to me. I ran our scanner at work (diesel repair shop) on the car to see if I saw anything abnormal as stated above. Clutch pedal according to the computer is letting all the way out. Input and output speeds don't seem abnormal. According to the gauge in the DIC my trans isn't getting above 110-115 degrees. The dealer had the car for 3 days and could not figure anything out other than the car is in fact "broken". They told me it is safe to drive for the time being and I could pick it up. Have called several times, and have gotten no return phone call.

I am at a loss of what to do at this point, I have a $50k+ daily driver, that I can't go over half throttle in and no one seems to know how to fix.
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Old 01-06-2022, 09:50 AM   #10
ctrlz

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDTKyle View Post
Input and output speeds don't seem abnormal.
Can you track vehicle speed sensor data vs engine speed?
See if the vehicle speed sensor is intermittent or has other issues. I would assume engine speed/rpm would show up as funny tachometer behavior, and you would catch that.
If you stay in the same gear during a test, the ratio of rpm to vehicle speed should stay the same.

Also, check this out:
https://gm-techlink.com/?p=13556

here's a link to the service bulletin referenced above:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...80313-9999.pdf

here's a reluctor wheel which looks close to what's in the repair manual. This thing is basically sandwiched in the output shaft. The inner diameter is smooth, so it can spin on the output shaft if not torqued.
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-24202.../dp/B0013FGSVQ

And here's a diagram showing the speed sensor. Looks like right side of tranny near the rear. I assume once you get this off (which doesn't look too bad) you can try to move the reluctor wheel as described in the TSB. Note diagram shows electrical harness (1) already removed.
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Last edited by ctrlz; 01-06-2022 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 02-09-2022, 06:25 AM   #11
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I am experiencing the same problem. It is always in the mornings, Usually about 15 mins after I get on the interstate especially after hard acceleration and for sure if I hit the rev limiter. My message is usually proceeded by speed fluctuation in cruse control and speedometer. Dropping and gear and hammering the throttle clears the problem. This is getting very annoying. I just turned 37k on the car...18 RS V6 6sp
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Old 02-09-2022, 10:33 AM   #12
ctrlz

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter's Run View Post
I am experiencing the same problem.
There wouldn't be a TSB if there weren't a significant number of cars that showed up with the problem. Sounds like it's easy to confirm and a relatively easy fix.
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