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Old 03-18-2016, 11:02 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
Actually, you're skewing. I'm behind honest and speaking objectively, not as a GM loyalist. GM dropped the ball big time, and they'll pay the penalty with lousy sales unless they start offering major discounts.
Ok.

But don't confuse "not a GM loyalist" with "honest". Car-curious people can be wrong, too. Not all of the facts you're presenting are accurate. And of those that are: you're focusing on just the most extreme cases to color the whole picture. That's quite the opposite of "objective".

But as I said earlier, I'm not going to keep arguing this. The only people that really know the answer to this is the Camaro team themselves. Anyone else is guessing using their own assumptions. But it doesn't really matter anyways...If they offer dramatic rebates and price reductions: then you're right. If they don't, and there's future generations...then you're not.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:03 PM   #198
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From a Canadian perspective.....

I've been enjoying this thread.

Prior to the S550 ('15 up) Mustang, all S197 ('05-'14) Canadian Stangs were "Premium" GT's.

Now, a base and premium version exist. A '16 GT Premium, with Track Pack, is roughly the same price as a 2SS is in Canada. In-essence, Ford dropped an 8-10K increase on the car!

When looking to replace my '12 GT vert, it made more sense for me to go to a Camaro. A car that had better features and performance, then the Mustang does, at the same price.

What may be driving some of you to question or re-think the 6 gen, is what actually led me to straight go it......It's value.......

Cheers!
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:09 PM   #199
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It's funny, I saw the first 6th-gen in our town today.....towards the end of winter. I never see nice cars until late April or May around here. And I didn't see a 5th gen until 2010.
The dealer I buy from just got their first SS this week. I just saw it today. That's why I said the other day that getting a ZL1 will be a nightmare. I had the first 2010 in our town. I still don't see many gen5 cars at all. Suits me small town life is great.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:15 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
Fail. Every single thing you ever buy is an investment, period. When you transfer your time and/or money for a product or service, you are investing in it. A vehicle is an investment by every possible definition.

Like the other gentlemen said that quoted me, it is not a financial one.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:22 PM   #201
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Just gonna throw this out there... A refresh or new design doesn't mean that a car has to dramatically increase in price.

Take a look the new Civic. I am not trying to compare these cars but you can argue that that car has more advanced tech than a new Camaro. It has blind spot monitoring that uses a camera area in the passenger side mirror and displays it in a big display. It has sensing technology that will enable adaptive cruise control with low speed follow. It has brake hold for when you are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic and get tired pushing the darn brake pedal. It has Apple CarPlay and android auto. The sensing tech will stop the damn car from hitting anything by automatically stopping the vehicle and it will even steer the car and keep it in the lane for you. They turbo charged it, increased power and improved fuel economy.

So you get an all new car that is dramatically improved over the last generation and the price increases about $400. Very impressive, which is why Honda will probably sell close to 400,000 of them this year.

The Miata is all new this year as well, lighter, quicker, better fuel economy, new tech, etc. and it had a very small increase in price.
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Old 03-18-2016, 11:34 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
Fail. Every single thing you ever buy is an investment, period. When you transfer your time and/or money for a product or service, you are investing in it. A vehicle is an investment by every possible definition.
You are wrong about that. Most vehicles are depreciable assets not investments. Investments are time or money spent with the intention of profitting. There are some collector cars that could be considered investments. You are way off in calling everthing you buy an investment. Infact, very few things a person buys are or we would all be stinking loaded.
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Old 03-19-2016, 12:05 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
Fail. Every single thing you ever buy is an investment, period. When you transfer your time and/or money for a product or service, you are investing in it. A vehicle is an investment by every possible definition.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/investment?s=t


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Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

Investment

noun
  1. the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.
  2. a particular instance or mode of investing.
  3. a thing invested in, as a business, a quantity of shares of stock, etc.
  4. something that is invested; sum invested.
  5. the act or fact of investing or state of being invested, as with a garment.
  6. a devoting, using, or giving of time, talent, emotional energy, etc., as for a purpose or to achieve something: His investment in the project included more time than he cared to remember.
  7. Biology. any covering, coating, outer layer, or integument, as of an animal or vegetable.
  8. the act of investing with a quality, attribute, etc.
  9. investiture with an office, dignity, or right.
  10. a siege or blockade; the surrounding of a place with military forces or works, as in besieging.
  11. Also called investment compound. Metallurgy. a refractory material applied in a plastic state to a pattern to make a mold.
  12. Archaic. a garment or vestment.
I don't see your 'anything you ever spend money on' up there. Profit is included in definition #1, and there are multiple references to investing and invested (1st definition of each also includes profit). An investment of time is also associated with a payoff. Then of course you have the uncommon usages of the word (biology, warfare, manufacturing, clothing). Those last few alone disqualify a car from being an investment in 'every possible definition'. But even without that, I don't see a depreciating car being an investment by any of the above definitions.
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Old 03-19-2016, 04:47 AM   #204
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In europe i see no chance for chevy to get close to the Mustang.
No dealers and price tag is to high, yes.
Mustang GT fully equipt for 48000€
chevy is´nt official released yet but all the import dealers have prices for a 2SS loaded near or in the 60000€ !
we´ll see.
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:15 AM   #205
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I feel the Camaro is worth the price. When Ford came out with the new version mustang (S550) dealerships would not take anything off the sticker, when they came out with the GT350 and GT350R, dealers were charging 15k to 25k over MSRP for those cars. A fair comparison would not be current monthly sales, it should be the first six months the new refresh was released (since there were no huge incentives).

I notice the ones that are complaining about the price of the 2016 Camaro, actually have earlier models but spend most of their time on the Gen6 website. I think if you don't think the Gen6 is worth the money and you don't want to pay the price, why not just go to a website with the "better deals" you keep mentioning. The fact that you spend so much time here bashing the 2016, just shows that you really do want the car, but cannot pay the current asking price.

I didn't just compare my car to the Mustang, I actually purchased a 15 Mustang GT brand new with the premium package and performance (track) package. The front end was very floaty on acceleration and the hood shook vigorously at 100 mph. I sold the Mustang and bought the 2016 SS and am extremely happy with the Camaro. The point I'm trying to make is that so many of you are basing your purchase on the price comparison between two cars, but why purchase a cheaper car that you will not be happy with? It seems that you do know the Camaro is better and that's why you are not buying the car you are comparing it to, instead you are bashing the Camaro in hopes that it will bring down the price.
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:31 AM   #206
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You are wrong about that. Most vehicles are depreciable assets not investments. Investments are time or money spent with the intention of profitting. There are some collector cars that could be considered investments. You are way off in calling everthing you buy an investment. Infact, very few things a person buys are or we would all be stinking loaded.
You nailed it ,,,,,, very few people INVEST just about anything with the intention to lose ,,,, so , yeah , investment is done for an expected profit in return , ,,,, this can't be expected when buying a mass produced car ,,, period
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:56 AM   #207
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Now that this thread is finally slowing down I really have to say this. I hate when to and too are used incorrectly. I keep seeing the post and it just really bothers me.
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:26 AM   #208
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Honest question, besides leather, what does a 2015 2SS have that a 2016 1SS does not?
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:08 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied View Post
I feel the Camaro is worth the price. When Ford came out with the new version mustang (S550) dealerships would not take anything off the sticker, when they came out with the GT350 and GT350R, dealers were charging 15k to 25k over MSRP for those cars. A fair comparison would not be current monthly sales, it should be the first six months the new refresh was released (since there were no huge incentives).

I notice the ones that are complaining about the price of the 2016 Camaro, actually have earlier models but spend most of their time on the Gen6 website. I think if you don't think the Gen6 is worth the money and you don't want to pay the price, why not just go to a website with the "better deals" you keep mentioning. The fact that you spend so much time here bashing the 2016, just shows that you really do want the car, but cannot pay the current asking price.

I didn't just compare my car to the Mustang, I actually purchased a 15 Mustang GT brand new with the premium package and performance (track) package. The front end was very floaty on acceleration and the hood shook vigorously at 100 mph. I sold the Mustang and bought the 2016 SS and am extremely happy with the Camaro. The point I'm trying to make is that so many of you are basing your purchase on the price comparison between two cars, but why purchase a cheaper car that you will not be happy with? It seems that you do know the Camaro is better and that's why you are not buying the car you are comparing it to, instead you are bashing the Camaro in hopes that it will bring down the price.

What you bring up about dealer pricing with the Mustang is also telling. I haven't seen any mark-ups on the new Camaro, in fact they're mostly all advertised with discounts around here. The demand just never materialized to justify marking up the Camaro.

I don't think the Camaro is overpriced for what you're getting, but it may have pushed the price up too high for the market it's competing in. I think it's still a little too soon to draw a conclusion, but if the numbers don't improve dramatically over the next few months, big discounts will almost certainly follow. I don't believe for a second that Chevy didn't have every intention to retake the sales leadership role it had with the 5th gen.

I do think it's going to be an uphill battle though, because the only real hope is the base model bringing the numbers up, but the price isn't dramatically lower than the V6. And things like practicality and style become a lot more important to buyers shopping for base cars than those just looking for performance. The Mustangs lower price of entry, along with it's easier to live with ergonomics as a daily driver and more dramatic design change from the last generation are going to be hard to top.
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:22 AM   #210
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I notice the ones that are complaining about the price of the 2016 Camaro, actually have earlier models but spend most of their time on the Gen6 website. I think if you don't think the Gen6 is worth the money and you don't want to pay the price,

The fact that you spend so much time here bashing the 2016, just shows that you really do want the car, but cannot pay the current asking price.
...sounds bad from a sales standpoint
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