[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

I dont. I consider the Volt to be... the Volt. some similar things in it, but the capabilities of the volt are too profound to be considered "the next version"

thats like thinking the Camaro was the Monza II.(oh wait... it kinda was. lol)

The EV1 was initially intended to be more like the Volt. It was supposed to have a gasoline powered generator, but California mandated that X number of cars need to be purely electric, so they scraped the idea. Plus many of the team members for the Volt were also on the EV1 project.

[Mr. Wyndham]

That movie is one of the most worthless pieces of film in history...second only to "the Village"...

It amazes me that they did not cover the reasons for scrapping the program...It was a useless car, a two-seater with virtually zero cargo space. It cost an arm and a leg, had very poor range, and took forever to charge. This tended to repel buyers. On top of that, it was high-cost, zero-profit, high-maintinance, and because of the above, had limited-interest on the part of buyers. It was a car way ahead of its time, sadly.

Was it a great step forward? Hell yes! They were teh FIRST people to do an electric automobile, and it was leaps ahead of the Prius in terms of technology, well before that pos came to market.

Did GM just dump all they learned from that program? Hell NO! There's a reason why only they have the ability to pull a Volt out of thin air in 3 years time. Ford couldn't do it, Toyota couldn't do it, and they even issued statements of doubt and scepticism about the project...GM has the experience, knowledge, and professionals left over from the EV1 program to make the Volt possible...yet today, they have the added benefit of beautiful design abilities to make it appealing.

/rant....I really hate that film.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The EV1 was initially intended to be more like the Volt. It was supposed to have a gasoline powered generator, but California mandated that X number of cars need to be purely electric, so they scraped the idea. Plus many of the team members for the Volt were also on the EV1 project.

California can be scrapped with the EV1.... lmao

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

That movie is one of the most worthless pieces of film in history...second only to "the Village"...

It amazes me that they did not cover the reasons for scrapping the program...It was a useless car, a two-seater with virtually zero cargo space. It cost an arm and a leg, had very poor range, and took forever to charge. This tended to repel buyers. On top of that, it was high-cost, zero-profit, high-maintinance, and because of the above, had limited-interest on the part of buyers. It was a car way ahead of its time, sadly.

Was it a great step forward? Hell yes! They were teh FIRST people to do an electric automobile, and it was leaps ahead of the Prius in terms of technology, well before that pos came to market.

Did GM just dump all they learned from that program? Hell NO! There's a reason why only they have the ability to pull a Volt out of thin air in 3 years time. Ford couldn't do it, Toyota couldn't do it, and they even issued statements of doubt and scepticism about the project...GM has the experience, knowledge, and professionals left over from the EV1 program to make the Volt possible...yet today, they have the added benefit of beautiful design abilities to make it appealing.

/rant....I really hate that film.

pot stirring time... what about the new Honda that is estimating 300+mpg based on the same technology the volt uses?

[FenwickHockey65]

Honda also told everyone the Insight would hit 100+ MPG.

Now it's a sales flop.

I'm not expecting much out of Honda.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

Honda also told everyone the Insight would hit 100+ MPG.

Now it's a sales flop.

I'm not expecting much out of Honda.

dont count them out too much. ever notice how auto companies bring out similar vehicles right around the same time... no one has a completely unique design/technology anymore. sure parts are very different, but overall, its very similar

[GrnMchin]

So I just attended a FD class 16 hrs on Hybrids from a master tech that debunk a ton of false info.http://www.mgstech.net/index.html

Long and short GM did drop the ball with the EV1 had GM developed this tech further they would have been hands down the industry leader. Now as I understand it when the Volts hits the market it will already be dated and the Nissan Leaf will be the next gen hybrid.
As it stand there are two type of true Hybrid technology exist Honda's and Toyota's
1) Honda's is very inexpensive and easy to build, but not as efficient.

2) Toyota is the industry leader and 90% of the car manufactures pay royalties to them. Such as Ford, Nissan, etc.

I'm not a expert, but spent allot of time talking with the instructor after class and he knows his S. He maybe a little bias toward hybrid, but did shoot me the strait poop on the were the market is going. The Volt battery will be it's weak point due to charge cycle life. The Volt is more of a true electric and uses the engine as a charger, but runs off the battery. If the battery life expires then it only has the ability to limp home. The Toyota battery does not care if it's has a full charge or not ( its always in a state of flux) and if it goes bad the car will still function and just become less efficient. Even if the battery does need changing he said it's about $2500 with parts and labor. He said some of the first gen Toyota had some issues, but the second gen and third gen will do 400K plus with no issue.
With all this said I'm still looking forward to the Volt, but the instructor did bring up food for thought. The EV1 technology was proven and just needed to be refined back in 1995 Toyota took this idea and developed it, marketed it, and now GM has to play catch-up that's the real shame in all of this.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

That movie is one of the most worthless pieces of film in history...second only to "the Village"...

It amazes me that they did not cover the reasons for scrapping the program...It was a useless car, a two-seater with virtually zero cargo space. It cost an arm and a leg, had very poor range, and took forever to charge. This tended to repel buyers. On top of that, it was high-cost, zero-profit, high-maintinance, and because of the above, had limited-interest on the part of buyers. It was a car way ahead of its time, sadly.

Was it a great step forward? Hell yes! They were teh FIRST people to do an electric automobile, and it was leaps ahead of the Prius in terms of technology, well before that pos came to market.

Did GM just dump all they learned from that program? Hell NO! There's a reason why only they have the ability to pull a Volt out of thin air in 3 years time. Ford couldn't do it, Toyota couldn't do it, and they even issued statements of doubt and scepticism about the project...GM has the experience, knowledge, and professionals left over from the EV1 program to make the Volt possible...yet today, they have the added benefit of beautiful design abilities to make it appealing.

/rant....I really hate that film.

Electric cars were around before GM even existed

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

pot stirring time... what about the new Honda that is estimating 300+mpg based on the same technology the volt uses?

If I remember correctly, that vehicle is not a Volt-style car...it has a limited range due to charge; it's more akin to the original EV1...I may be wrong, however.

On a side note, with Honda's failure of an Insight...I don't expect anything spectacular out of them in this dept. Plus, I believe their car is substantially smaller than the Volt...I think.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Electric cars were around before GM even existed

True -- but they were the first to bring it to mass production and available for everyone in a contemporary application.

I don't defend them for scrapping it...if they hadn't, the Prius would have never taken root, and Toyota wouldn't be where they are today. What can I say other than hindsight is 20/20. The Volt is lightyears ahead of both of them (as it's not a hybrid), and only time will tell if they can recapture what they left behind with the suspension of the EV1 program. BUT -- there were reasons for scrapping the car that made sense, and were not covered in that excuse for a documentary...and that's the only reason I posted.

[All-Or-Nothing]

I'd like to have an EV1 with a twin turbo V6.

[BigRigMike]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

So I just attended a FD class 16 hrs on Hybrids from a master tech that debunk a ton of false info.http://www.mgstech.net/index.html

Long and short GM did drop the ball with the EV1 had GM developed this tech further they would have been hands down the industry leader. Now as I understand it when the Volts hits the market it will already be dated and the Nissan Leaf will be the next gen hybrid.
As it stand there are two type of true Hybrid technology exist Honda's and Toyota's
1) Honda's is very inexpensive and easy to build, but not as efficient.

2) Toyota is the industry leader and 90% of the car manufactures pay royalties to them. Such as Ford, Nissan, etc.

I'm not a expert, but spent allot of time talking with the instructor after class and he knows his S. He maybe a little bias toward hybrid, but did shoot me the strait poop on the were the market is going. The Volt battery will it's weak point due to charge cycle life. The Volt is more of a true electric and uses the engine as a charger, but runs off the battery. If the battery life expires then it only has the ability to limp home. The Toyota battery does not care if it's has a full charge or not ( its always in a state of flux) and if it goes bad the car will still function and just become less efficient. Even if the battery does need changing he said it's about $2500 with parts and labor. He said some of the first gen Toyota had some issues, but the second gen and third gen will do 400K plus with no issue.
With all this said I'm still looking forward to the Volt, but the instructor did bring up food for thought. The EV1 technology was proven and just needed to be refined back in 1995 Toyota took this idea and developed it, marketed it, and now GM has to play catch-up that's the real shame in all of this.

I would consider the number of mass produced hybrid systems to be 4. Honda, Toyota, Ford, Two-Mode (GM, Daimler, BMW...). Ford and Toyota's system are extremely similar but were developed independently. They had a cross licensing agreement because each needed patents from the other but no money was exchanged. The new Fusion Hybrid does not use any patents held by Toyota and I think the new Prius does not use any Ford patents. The Nissan Altima hybrid is straight from a Camry Hybrid.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

I'd like to have an EV1 with a twin turbo V6.

Wouldn't it be called a TTV6 then?

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

If I remember correctly, that vehicle is not a Volt-style car...it has a limited range due to charge; it's more akin to the original EV1...I may be wrong, however.

On a side note, with Honda's failure of an Insight...I don't expect anything spectacular out of them in this dept. Plus, I believe their car is substantially smaller than the Volt...I think.

They have one thats supposed to be set up the same way. electric motors powering the car full time with a gas generator motor to recharge the batteries.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Wouldn't it be called a TTV6 then?

wouldn't it be called a Z28 then?




lmao

[GrnMchin]

Originally Posted by BigRigMike

I would consider the number of mass produced hybrid systems to be 4. Honda, Toyota, Ford, Two-Mode (GM, Daimler, BMW...). Ford and Toyota's system are extremely similar but were developed independently. They had a cross licensing agreement because each needed patents from the other but no money was exchanged. The new Fusion Hybrid does not use any patents held by Toyota and I think the new Prius does not use any Ford patents. The Nissan Altima hybrid is straight from a Camry Hybrid.

Thanks for the info, I was just trying to dumb it down little more. I'm no tech, but Toyota does hold several patents on components that are not covered by the licensing agreements and some of its shared components are bought by Ford and Nissan. I was trying to keep it basic and just make some quick references.

I was shock at how much I though I new and now am better informed. I wish GM would be more proactive and they really dropped the ball. Toyota is producing electric power rack and pinon and AC units on some of their cars now that all came from hybrid tech. Stuff like this could go a long way in fuel savings and add HP to any car and why Toyota seems to be killing everyone in auto sales in general.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by GrnMchin

Stuff like this could go a long way in fuel savings and add HP to any car and why Toyota seems to be killing everyone in auto sales in general.

Toyota's also killing everyone by not fixing their damn acceleration problem.