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Old 10-03-2016, 03:39 PM   #43
SS 1LE
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
More major if they update the drivetrain which the rumors say is happening.

Coyote getting DI and possibly the A10 replacing the A6 in 2018..that'd likely bring the 5.0 up the the LT1 in terms of HP and bump up the torque by about 20 ft lb's or so.

Well, the A10 is absolutely replacing the A6, the question is all in 2018 or a phased introduction.
I don't see too much of a power bump happening. It can't be too close to GT350 performance levels for obvious reasons, and that car barely outguns an SS in a straight line. I could see it getting 450 hp and 425 torque. Still won't be enough...and they need to ditch that crap MT-82...
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
More major if they update the drivetrain which the rumors say is happening.

Coyote getting DI and possibly the A10 replacing the A6 in 2018..that'd likely bring the 5.0 up the the LT1 in terms of HP and bump up the torque by about 20 ft lb's or so.

Well, the A10 is absolutely replacing the A6, the question is all in 2018 or a phased introduction.
I am shocked that the Mustang GT wasn't released with direct injection, torque will certainly improve a bit on the car. All they really need to do is gain 20BHP to match the SS Camaro in horsepower though the LT1 is going to maintain its low to mid range advantage over the Mustang.
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Old 10-03-2016, 03:49 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by SS 1LE View Post
I don't see too much of a power bump happening. It can't be too close to GT350 performance levels for obvious reasons, and that car barely outguns an SS in a straight line. I could see it getting 450 hp and 425 torque. Still won't be enough...and they need to ditch that crap MT-82...
No I don't think it'll be a huge power bump either..from the newsletter I read it sounded like the switch to DI/PI was more for fuel economy than power.

In the same newsletter they said they had designed a new 4.8L V8 for the F150 but the 5.0 hit the economy goals they were hoping for with the 4.8L.

The engine plant is set to shut down from December 14th to January 3rd..it was unknown at the time if that's when they're going to installing the new equipment for the Coyote DI switch over or if they'll need more time off in the new year to do so. It also looks like the Coyote is getting spray-bore lining as standard, or at least some new engine at the Essex plant is.

Either way, Coyote is getting DI in CY 2017.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:00 PM   #46
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Mustang sales were already in a nosedive for the past several months so this isn't a huge surprise. Between the corporate styling and trying to shove a 4-banger down everybody's throat I'm surprised it sold as well as it did.

I still think the SS is overpriced but they finally got the volume trims down to a much more realistic price so sales should be more competitive going forward.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:03 PM   #47
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The S550 sales decline is similar to what happened with the 5th Gen Camaro...the first three years were strong, then started dropping off. Then the refresh came along and popped them back up..

If the refresh is balanced and comes with drivetrain improvements..I'd expect the sales figures to rise again and stay elevated until the S650 arrives in 2020.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:10 PM   #48
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...but...wait?.?. I thought the average pony car buyer only cares about an inexpensive V8. Performance isn't the primary concern for the majority of buyer and enthusiasts are only a small percentage.
I believe that is true, but freshness and style changes are also important, which is what is expected with the 2018 refresh along with performance improvements. The S550 is now 3 years old (revealed Oct 16) and there are some features about it's design that have been significantly overshadowed by the GT350, and by the Camaro with regard to performance.

Performance is important to most Pony Car buyers, but at what price. Chevy and Cadillac have had to learn this lesson again the hard way with the Alpha platform. Ford seems to be a bit better at getting this balance right for the majority of the Pony Car buyers.

Meanwhile for the high end enthusiasts, Ford has nothing to be embarrassed about with the GT500, Boss 302, GT350, and Cobra Jet, except maybe the high ADM prices these cars command.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:19 PM   #49
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I love the comments that refresh talk, new models coming is slowing there sales to this point. Really? Those same guys were the ones insisting advertising, the new styling, and the fact that no one knew the Camaro is new were the reasons it was outselling everyone. Did all potential Mustang suddenly start reading all the internet rumor mills? Did the styling suddenly become crap? I thought that advertising was key??

A slowing economy means there are fewer impulse buyers, which is probably what most of those sales were. Now we are whittling down to informed buyers and those looking for real deals on the cars.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:25 PM   #50
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the 5.0 could use more torque and hopefully DI will give it some.
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:40 PM   #51
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I love the comments that refresh talk, new models coming is slowing there sales to this point. Really? Those same guys were the ones insisting advertising, the new styling, and the fact that no one knew the Camaro is new were the reasons it was outselling everyone. Did all potential Mustang suddenly start reading all the internet rumor mills? Did the styling suddenly become crap? I thought that advertising was key??

A slowing economy means there are fewer impulse buyers, which is probably what most of those sales were. Now we are whittling down to informed buyers and those looking for real deals on the cars.
Well the S550 design is good looking, but it's not new, the "wow!" factor is gone since it's been around for 2 years now. The same thing happened with the Camaro in 2012..sales started to slip in it's 3rd model year, just as the S550 is in it's third MY now.

I think informed car fans, not brand enthusiasts, may be holding out a bit to see what the refreshed Mustang has to offer, which is being talked about beyond M6G. However, for the average person on the street..what apparently is catching attention were the big discounts on Camaros that popped up in August and September, and it shows.

Overall..yes..the economy is starting to fall again, and with the election coming up and the uncertainty surrounding that, people are a bit less ready to go in on a risk. It's not like in 2012 when it was obvious Obama was going to be re-elected and we were going to get more of the same (not to bring up politics, just statement of fact) so people were ready to gamble on the status quo maintaining. We don't have that for 2017 however, so people aren't as carefree with money right now.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:19 PM   #52
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what apparently is catching attention were the big discounts on Camaros that popped up in August and September, and it shows.

Overall..yes..the economy is starting to fall again, and with the election coming up and the uncertainty surrounding that, people are a bit less ready to go in on a risk. It's not like in 2012 when it was obvious Obama was going to be re-elected and we were going to get more of the same (not to bring up politics, just statement of fact) so people were ready to gamble on the status quo maintaining. We don't have that for 2017 however, so people aren't as carefree with money right now.
Exactly my points too. This talk about styling, refreshes, and new models though is definitely not causing a 2k a month downward trend though for the Mustang though. The vast majority of buyers do not know when a new car is out until they see a commercial, see it on a lot, or see it driving. And the newer models aren't holding lots of people back for the same reason.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:26 PM   #53
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The S550 sales decline is similar to what happened with the 5th Gen Camaro...the first three years were strong, then started dropping off. Then the refresh came along and popped them back up..

If the refresh is balanced and comes with drivetrain improvements..I'd expect the sales figures to rise again and stay elevated until the S650 arrives in 2020.
From the camo'd pics I've seen I don't think a refresh is going to save that thing. Besides the looks they need to find someone who is serious about cars to work on the performance and handling.

I bought my Camaro on the last weekend of August for no other reason than the price was finally in line with what it should have been all along. As great of a car as it is, it wasn't worth the extra $5k they had it priced at before.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:00 PM   #54
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:33 PM   #55
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First, you don't need to be an owner to love the Camaro, be on this site and discuss sales.

Second, why people REJECT your product is many times more important than why they accept it. Particularly when you want to make a LOT of money. From my experience at GM, they have ignored this simple business fact.

Third, although not hugely advertised it does look as if price was a big factor in sales. Although last month the TAG sale had no impact on the sales, this month it perhaps did. There is another post by a member stating a 1SS was purchase for $29k and change. That's pretty lowwwwwww.

The biggest news isn't the bump in Camaro sales, but the tanking of Mustang sales. The Camaro is clearly the better performance car. But the Mustang was clearly the higher volume car due to several reasons no one likes to discuss. Are we simply witnessing the death of the sporty coupe as we know it?
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:56 PM   #56
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Camaro outsells Mustang

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September 2016 sales stats are in and Camaro U.S. sales outpaced those of the Mustang and Challenger last month.

6,577 Camaros were sold last month versus 6,429 Mustangs. The last time Camaro sales topped Mustang sales was in Oct. 2014.

The Camaro also outsold the Challenger, which sold 5,698 units.


Charts courtesy of Enator:


Not by much!
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