[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

bhobbs is referring to the fact that when team corvette couldn't hit their power goals NA and went supercharged that kind of dictated the path for the rest of GM performance. Once the Z06 got the LT4, it trickled down into Cadillac and Camaro( again not the worst place to pull from lol)

Now last gen they said the Z/28 cant be supercharged. Well the only place they can pull engines from is Corvette. Top dog corvette right now has the LT4, most are assuming that the ZR1 Corvette will have an even more powerful supercharged engine. Also a no go for the Z/28.

What Corvette does, Camaro must follow at least based on recent history.

The same would apply to the Camaro. No? The Z/28 is supposed to be a faster track car than the ZL1 (and ZL1-1LE). I don't think it can with a NA engine.

I also think team Corvette screwed up but going supercharged with the Z06. Its as if whatever is powering the ZR1 wasn't part of the plan yet.

Let the ZL1 and ZR1 be the fastest triple threat. The Z/28 and Z06 should be the fastest NA track car

[soloknight6]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

ZL1 weighs 3,900 pounds, not 4,100.. ZL1 1LE weighs even less.

2017 ZL1 weight: 3883-4113 lbs. Looks like we are both right lol. Of course the manual, base model will be lightest ZL1 without going with the 1LE option.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...k1.5rpyylf9wG4

[14Black1LESS]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The same would apply to the Camaro. No? The Z/28 is supposed to be a faster track car than the ZL1 (and ZL1-1LE). I don't think it can with a NA engine.

I also think team Corvette screwed up but going supercharged with the Z06. Its as if whatever is powering the ZR1 wasn't part of the plan yet.

Let the ZL1 and ZR1 be the fastest triple threat. The Z/28 and Z06 should be the fastest NA track car

The Z/28 was supposed to be the faster track car on the 5th Gen. It was never stated that was going to happen on the 6th Gen.

Its kind of hard to get that much hp and tq on a small block without going FI. I don't see GM going back to big blocks anytime soon and since everyone is in a hp war again, FI was the logical course to go.

For the Z/28 and Z06 to be the fastest NA track cars, both would have to lose a lot of weight to make up for having less power than the LT4.

Would be nice to see them redo the LS7 for direct injection and get it tuned to around 550-575hp.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

The last time I looked the business statement for both Corvette and Camaro was to be the best performance sport coupe offerings for the money bar none. I think they have nailed it for the past few generations. Regardless if Corvette comes out with a rear mid engined car it will be tasked with offering more for less without rapping us the consumers over the coals. How is that going a different direction from team Camaro?

I'm sorry but the GT350's flat plane crank is no more unique than say a flat plane crank engined Ferrari or whatever, it's just bigger cubes and american made. Not at all unique on its own just slightly different. The goal at the end of the day is how to make effective power production for the given task.

I give ford kudos for making it but I'm not sold that the voodoo will be a durable solution for reliability reasons and for all it's' so called uniqueness it barely beat the Z/28 with it's parts bin decade old engine at Laguna Seca and that was due more to the carbon fiber wheels, not the voodoo.

That doesn't change the fact that, above the base model, the Camaro offers less power for the same money. The cars perform so well because team Camaro is damn good at what they do. Now, just imagine at what the results would be if they could set their own power goals.

I'm not saying unique, as in no one has done it before. I mean unique to the Camaro, as in team Camaro set their own goals and met them with an engine that is not used in another car.

Originally Posted by doc7000

Motor Trend put both the 5th generation Z/28 and GT350 on a chassis dyno and they both put the same amount of power to the wheels, also the LSA was from the CTS V while the LS9 was used by the Corvette.

Yeah, I know about that but it shouldn't be the case. Both engines are SAE rated and, unless the Camaro has the most efficient drive train ever, there was something else going on then.

Yes, the LSA was a bargain version of the LS9. Guess what wasn't a bargain version of any other engine. The 5.8 Trinity.

Originally Posted by hotlap

The same would apply to the Camaro. No? The Z/28 is supposed to be a faster track car than the ZL1 (and ZL1-1LE). I don't think it can with a NA engine.

I also think team Corvette screwed up but going supercharged with the Z06. Its as if whatever is powering the ZR1 wasn't part of the plan yet.

Let the ZL1 and ZR1 be the fastest triple threat. The Z/28 and Z06 should be the fastest NA track car

The Z/28 is supposed to be a track car. It may not be the fastest this generation, but it was the last generation. The difference is they decided to bring out the ZL1 1LE, which is probably a good indication we won't get a Z/28.

I doubt team Corvette planned on doing the ZR1 but when the Z06 flopped so hard, plans probably got changed. Sure, it sells well because old retired guys can get a convertible, with the automatic and all the gadgets they need, but it fell on its face as a track car. The ZR1 is probably going to massively outperform the Z06 in every way.

[14Black1LESS]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I doubt team Corvette planned on doing the ZR1 but when the Z06 flopped so hard, plans probably got changed. Sure, it sells well because old retired guys can get a convertible, with the automatic and all the gadgets they need, but it fell on its face as a track car. The ZR1 is probably going to massively outperform the Z06 in every way.

Really!? It's one of the best track cars out there today. It out performed the Porsche 918 at VIR and it has a recorded lap time of 7:13.9 on Nurburgring, and its capable of a faster time than that. I have no doubt the ZR1 will out perform the Z06 but your crazy if you think the Z06 flopped and fell on its face as a track car.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The same would apply to the Camaro. No? The Z/28 is supposed to be a faster track car than the ZL1 (and ZL1-1LE). I don't think it can with a NA engine.

I also think team Corvette screwed up but going supercharged with the Z06. Its as if whatever is powering the ZR1 wasn't part of the plan yet.

Let the ZL1 and ZR1 be the fastest triple threat. The Z/28 and Z06 should be the fastest NA track car

That is what we are saying LOL, which is what Bhobbs is arguing against. He doesn't want Camaro to always be tied to the Corvette.

I also agree with you that I don't think an NA Camaro can outperform the ZL1 1LE.

Originally Posted by 14Black1LESS

Really!? It's one of the best track cars out there today. It out performed the Porsche 918 at VIR and it has a recorded lap time of 7:13.9 on Nurburgring, and its capable of a faster time than that. I have no doubt the ZR1 will out perform the Z06 but your crazy if you think the Z06 flopped and fell on its face as a track car.

I believe he is referring to how many Z06's went into limp mode and had cooling issues

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by soloknight6

2017 ZL1 weight: 3883-4113 lbs. Looks like we are both right lol. Of course the manual, base model will be lightest ZL1 without going with the 1LE option.

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...k1.5rpyylf9wG4

No, we're not.. Bringing up the weight of convertible vesion doesn't make sense in the comparison you were making.

[soloknight6]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

No, we're not.. Bringing up the weight of convertible vesion doesn't make sense in the comparison you were making.

Ahhhhh, what a silly mistake. You are correct.

[Iroc_Z28]

I think an NA version of the c7 zr1 engine could be a good place to start for the next Z28. CCB and de-contenting to separate itself from the zl1 1le (and also drop weight) would make a great track focused car.

[Want1]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The same would apply to the Camaro. No? The Z/28 is supposed to be a faster track car than the ZL1 (and ZL1-1LE). I don't think it can with a NA engine.

I also think team Corvette screwed up but going supercharged with the Z06. Its as if whatever is powering the ZR1 wasn't part of the plan yet.

Let the ZL1 and ZR1 be the fastest triple threat. The Z/28 and Z06 should be the fastest NA track car

The Z28 is not faster than the ZL1. Even the SS 1LE beat the Z28 (even though it was by about half a second...) in Laguna Seca. The new suspension on the new 6gen SS 1LE gives it the edge.

Check out the link below. It shows lap times. The ZL1 1LE in 20th place, the SS 1LE in 46th, and the Z28 in 48th. Cool list!


http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

[14Black1LESS]

Originally Posted by Want1

The Z28 is not faster than the ZL1. Even the SS 1LE beat the Z28 (even though it was by about half a second...) in Laguna Seca. The new suspension on the new 6gen SS 1LE gives it the edge.

Check out the link below. It shows lap times. The ZL1 1LE in 20th place, the SS 1LE in 46th, and the Z28 in 48th. Cool list!


http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

I'm pretty sure he was referencing the 5th Gen Z/28 to the 5th Gen ZL1, which is faster than the 5th Gen ZL1 and 5th Gen 1LE.

[Want1]

Originally Posted by 14Black1LESS

I'm pretty sure he was referencing the 5th Gen Z/28 to the 5th Gen ZL1, which is faster than the 5th Gen ZL1 and 5th Gen 1LE.

Ooops!!

You are correct!
Sorry about that...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Let the ZL1 and ZR1 be the fastest triple threat. The Z/28 and Z06 should be the fastest NA track car

To be more clear. Build a 7.0L NA engine for the Z06 and Z/28. No one will care if its not faster than the ZL1 or ZL1-1LE

Use Ford's GT350 TP and R approach and share the engine with the SS-1LE ($57k) and make the Z/28 ($65k) the stripped super NA track car.

I know shaffe and Bhoobs and many other agree with this. I'd buy

[Perez_J310]

I am in agreement with others. I don't think the Z28 should slot higher in the lineup vs zl1 1le. The zl1 1le is the 6th gens track star. The z28 should be a GT car on steriods, great to daily drive but can also tear up the canyons and track. If GM can make a decently equipped 550-575 whp high revving NA V8 with 2SS interior and ZL1 suspension plus some areo goodies they would have my money in a heartbeat.