[HCI2000SS]

I was reading about a couple of side benefits that are a direct result of the design. One was how quickly the car cools down with the AC. Being there is little glass compared to others it makes some sense. The other thing was how quiet it is inside due the high door line, and lack of window area again. Not sure how true that all is IMO, but it sounds reasonable. For me personally, I like the low hunkered down feeling. Makes me feel like I'm in a real sports car. If I wanted a more upright and visible type cabin I wouldn't be looking at a sporty 2 door car to begin with. Different strokes for different folks obviously

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

No doubt you can get used to it. You can get used to a lot of things. However, there is nothing gained with a high belt, slammed roof Other than styling. GM styling lived by for years. You can only lose. Hard to sell a car with poor visibility to someone who cares.

Again, the very best car in the segment sells the poorest, and it isn’t marketing or advertising. If that’s all it took, Dodge would be number one by a mile.

1. Any actual data to back up that visibility is a major factor to the poor sales? I don't doubt it's a factor, but saying it's a major factor without any data to back it up will raise eyebrows.

2. Again, I don't see how the sales figure relates to owner experience. Whether or not a car sells well doesn't change how good or bad the car is. A few great sports cars didn't sell well, like Honda S2000, but that doesn't make it a worse car for the driver, it makes it a bad car for the business but that's not an owner's problem. If anyone here works for GM then it might be worth something, but I don't think a lot of us do here. Writing an email to GM is more useful than complaining on a forum. About the only thing the sales figure changes anything for owners is the resale value, maybe, but cars are not investments unless you buy a classic and never drive it.

[caSStro18]

I challenge anyone to find a car that is absolutely perfect in every way to everyone. Not gonna happen. There will always be those people who complain. The trunk is too small, the visibility is poor, the interior is not quiet enough, there’s no back seat leg room or head room, it doesn’t shift very good, the seats are not comfortable, the door is too long, the radio isn’t good enough, it doesn’t have enough horsepower, blah, blah, blah. You just have to find the car that makes you the happiest. If visibility is an issue, go test drive something else. I hear mustangs have better visibility. Many of these complaints are about issues that cannot be easily corrected by the owner. So, if you can’t change it, don’t complain about it. Geez!

[Blue_6.2]

Originally Posted by caSStro18

So, if you can’t change it, don’t complain about it. Geez!

Spoken like a true Californian.

[caSStro18]

Originally Posted by Blue_6.2

Spoken like a true Californian.

Not exactly sure what that means, but...okay.

[Chutzpah]

After not driving the car for couple weeks or so, it does take a little bit to get used to. Minor but proactive adjustments to driving style (as Blue 6.2 pointed out), or not pulling up so close to stop light so you can’t see the signal, ensuring a pedestrian isn’t crossing perpendicular to a left turn from a two lane road (when I first drove the car the A pillar and my seating position created a small, but awkward blindspot).

There’s nothing difficult here, keep your eyes open and make some mental adjustments, like any other car or truck.

[nferr]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Perfect internet response.

Call intelligent people a name.

Make sure you are clear that it can't be a problem for anyone else because it isn't for you.

Then telling people do something that makes it ok for everyone.

It's a problem for many. And although you will likely deny it, EVERY MAGAZINE REVIEW mentions poor visibilty.

And the other issue? It's noticeably worse than the Number 1 seller in the segment, the Mustang.

And GM quickly added their new Rear View Camera Mirror to the Camaro to address this issue. If it wasn't a problem they wouldn't have done that.

For me? It's great that you don't mind. Cool for you. For me? It is unacceptable and at least partially why the best performing car in the segment is the worst selling car in the segment.

But again, glad it's not a problem for you. But it is a problem technically speaking (wrote a thesis on occupant packaging many years ago) and a lot of people find it a concern. Just not sure why you can't at least see some people would find it objectionable.

I've read a bunch of your posts on here and it's pretty evident the Camaro is just not the car for you. You've compared it to an Accord etc. in the past as far as interior use. It's a ponycar for crissakes not a FWD family coupe or sedan. The fact that you're now in a crossover or Buick LaCrosse was a smart move on your part for your preferences. Yes, I understand the Mustang is a little better in visibility and room but it's only a little better. The Challenger is a totally different animal it's a coupe based on a large RWD sedan on an aged chassis. Other than that there's nothing else in this class.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by nferr

I've read a bunch of your posts on here and it's pretty evident the Camaro is just not the car for you. You've compared it to an Accord etc. in the past as far as interior use. It's a ponycar for crissakes not a FWD family coupe or sedan. The fact that you're now in a crossover or Buick LaCrosse was a smart move on your part for your preferences. Yes, I understand the Mustang is a little better in visibility and room but it's only a little better. The Challenger is a totally different animal it's a coupe based on a large RWD sedan on an aged chassis. Other than that there's nothing else in this class.

But you miss my point. I so badly wanted the Gen6 to be the cari wanted. I wanted it more than anyone on this site. But if you go back 5 years you will see my posts to make it a great coupe first and a great Camaro second. They did the opposite and gave us the great Camaro first and as for a coupe, we got what was left.

If you’ve read my posts since post 1 you would know what the Camaro meant to me and how badly I wanted the Gen6 to be the car for me. It turned out they listened to the Camaro faithful who said simply more. So GM created a great Camaro that satisfied those that wanted more. But they missed the ability to win buyers that simply wanted a great coupe.

No one on this sight wanted a Gen6 more than me. I had very high hopes.

[Deputy Dog]

Originally Posted by Number 3

You just hit the poor sales nail squarely on the head. People sit in the car and if they notice it, feel cramped, less lit (that's a thing) they aren't buying it. Most people here are more concerned about the performance of the car and accept the trade offs.

Many say "you'll get used to it". You shouldn't have to get used to a new car.

Its the generation of people we have today, they complain to much and make excuses. Anyone here remember the 1970s Custom van craze with the full panel mural paint jobs? Many of those vans didn't have side or rear windows but the were selling like crazy and they were daily drivers. Remember the 71-73' Mustang Mach1 rear window? Passenger side mirror was an option. It was a nice looking car with a rear window you couldn't see out of but it didn't stop buyers. People then just adopted and didn't whine like they do today.



https://www.v8van.com/custom.html


https://www.hagerty.com/media/archiv...otten-mustang/


https://barnfinds.com/stored-for-30-...ustang-mach-1/

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Perfect internet response.

Call intelligent people a name.

Make sure you are clear that it can't be a problem for anyone else because it isn't for you.

Then telling people do something that makes it ok for everyone.

It's a problem for many. And although you will likely deny it, EVERY MAGAZINE REVIEW mentions poor visibilty.

And the other issue? It's noticeably worse than the Number 1 seller in the segment, the Mustang.

And GM quickly added their new Rear View Camera Mirror to the Camaro to address this issue. If it wasn't a problem they wouldn't have done that.

For me? It's great that you don't mind. Cool for you. For me? It is unacceptable and at least partially why the best performing car in the segment is the worst selling car in the segment.

But again, glad it's not a problem for you. But it is a problem technically speaking (wrote a thesis on occupant packaging many years ago) and a lot of people find it a concern. Just not sure why you can't at least see some people would find it objectionable.

You are right in that the visibility is not as good as it is in some other coupes. However, if they had designed it for visibility, I would probably not like the design as well as I do. I can't say as to how much a design change like that would affect aero, or rigidity, but it certainly feels solid now, I wouldn't want to give that up. It's nice looking car, and if it had a lower belt line and lower haunches in the rear, it wouldn't look as good. IMHO. So I'll take the trade off.

I am only speaking for myself, not anyone else.

[metros11]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Perfect internet response.

Call intelligent people a name.

Make sure you are clear that it can't be a problem for anyone else because it isn't for you.

Then telling people do something that makes it ok for everyone.

It's a problem for many. And although you will likely deny it, EVERY MAGAZINE REVIEW mentions poor visibilty.

And the other issue? It's noticeably worse than the Number 1 seller in the segment, the Mustang.

And GM quickly added their new Rear View Camera Mirror to the Camaro to address this issue. If it wasn't a problem they wouldn't have done that.

For me? It's great that you don't mind. Cool for you. For me? It is unacceptable and at least partially why the best performing car in the segment is the worst selling car in the segment.

But again, glad it's not a problem for you. But it is a problem technically speaking (wrote a thesis on occupant packaging many years ago) and a lot of people find it a concern. Just not sure why you can't at least see some people would find it objectionable.

I was cross shopping a Mustang and a Camaro, and drove both the same day to see if visibility and ergonomics would sway me towards the Mustang. For me, it didn't. And I feel what people often refer to as 'visibility', is primarily the enclosed quarters, low roof, and tight feel of the cabin. If that bothers you, buy the Mustang like everyone else, or use it as an excuse why you bought the Mustang. I do feel it's overblown, and publications tend to focus on it quite often to find fault with the car, as they have to be objective. The new Supra has the same 'visibility' issues as the Camaro, and that seems to have escaped criticism.

[Bob RS]

Once I have all my mirrors adjusted and seat and the right place i really don't have an issue with visibility. It seems that only the magazines that put the hate on the Camaro are the ones crying about visibility.

[HCI2000SS]

Originally Posted by Bob RS

Once I have all my mirrors adjusted and seat and the right place i really don't have an issue with visibility. It seems that only the magazines that put the hate on the Camaro are the ones crying about visibility.

That and the people who just sit or drive in it, and don't think to properly adjust the seat and mirrors. For instance I've found that my side mirrors need to be adjusted in a way that would not be ideal on most other cars. It just takes a little common sense and research, which unfortunately many people lack

[mikeman]

The Camaro (and Firebird when they were around) sold on styling with practicality down on the list, way down on the list. The 3rd gen was the first time it brought perceived functionality back with the rear hatch design. However, if you need a practical car with great visibility, the Camaro is not the car for you IMHO.