[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Doing their jobs, yes. $150 is an unacceptable ripoff for plugging in a computer. That’s a $25-50 job max.

Dealers are all rip off artists. The whole “labor by the book” thing is a total joke because they will always charge you the max hour rate for 5 minutes of actual work.

Screw that.

No, it's not "just plugging into a computer". They plug in to get the codes, they also plug in a data scanner that reads multiple sensors in the engine in real time. This is merely the first step. Once they get the code and the real time data, they proceed to a troubleshooting protocol to isolate the cause of the problem.

The folks at Autozone can plug in a scanner and give you the code, yes that's easy. The $150 is finding out exactly what is causing that code, and knowing how to fix it. In todays automobiles, with all of these systems closely tied to one another, it's rarely that simple.

Is there some profit built into that cost? Of course there is, why would there not be? There's profit built into whatever your business charges customers, is there not?

Do you think your doctor doesn't make a profit when you go in for a routine check up? If you think not, just go take a look at the car they drive, or the house they live in.

Go the your local bar, (when we can do that again) and order a pint of beer. They ask you for 6 or 7 dollars. Any idea how much that pint of beer costs them? About $.80 to $1.50. Don't forget the fact that the bar doesn't pay the bartender, you do that as well. Yet, we want to haggle over the price of car when the mark up is only about 6% yet won't blink an eye at the price of a beer when the mark up 600%.

[STYLO LT1]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

For some things, yes, absolutely. Some jobs on a car are minimum wage jobs and should be charged accordingly. 5 minutes is 5 minutes, not an hour. You don’t deserve an hour of pay for 5 minutes of work. End of argument.

Amen to that, brother!

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

For some things, yes, absolutely. Some jobs on a car are minimum wage jobs and should be charged accordingly. 5 minutes is 5 minutes, not an hour. You don’t deserve an hour of pay for 5 minutes of work. End of argument.

Did you know that technicians go to school for this job? Then go through an apprenticeship? Did you also know that they buy their own tools, (with the exception of specialty tools that the manufacturer requires the dealership to carry? A veteran technician will have anywhere from $50,000 to $70,000 invested in tools.

Also if a technician improperly diagnoses an issue, or doesn't perform the repair properly, and they have to do it again, the tech gets paid nothing for that. So, no, a diagnostic isn't a 5 minute operation. This is why the OP should've taken it back to folks that did the original work to the car. End of argument

[Petrol Head]

None of you make a single compelling argument for charging someone $75 or more for 15 minutes of time.

It doesn’t matter if they went to school and know all the codes. It takes no time at all to do that job.

If someone wants to have their car fixed I can see charging a reasonable labor rate commensurate to the type of job and time it takes to do it. But even then the magical “book rate” is a trucking joke. Jobs should have a flat fee and flat rate, because there’s a big difference in something that takes 20 minutes and something that takes an hour. No way in hell should anyone be paid an hours money for 20 minutes of actual work.

But simply running the codes and charge that much is unacceptable, unwarranted, and completely disgusting. I don’t care how much in tools a mechanic or how long he went to school or whatever your stupid and irrelevant excuse is.

Running the codes is an oil change, nothing more.

Run the codes and find the problem is $25.00. Then you give the customer the price to fix it and let them decide. Hell there’s people with far more education than a mechanic who don’t make $25.00/hr.

[SJFGTO]

Originally Posted by Paulie-G

I had a Harvard attorney charge me 480. per hour. 20 minutes into the second hour I was charged another 480.
You paid a lot less for your lesson.
If you don't know how to do the work, you need to find a guy who you trust.
Good luck and no, I don't have any trust in any attorneys.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Paulie-G

I had a Harvard attorney charge me 480. per hour. 20 minutes into the second hour I was charged another 480.
You paid a lot less for your lesson.
If you don't know how to do the work, you need to find a guy who you trust.
Good luck and no, I don't have any trust in any attorneys.

I was a plaintiff in an estate lawsuit that lasted 2 years. My lawyer charged me $150/hr, and divided the time up by 5 minute increments. So if I only talked to him for 10 minutes I was charged $25.00. His time charges I guarantee you at the end of the day exactly equaled the number of hours he worked. Whether it was 8 or more..... he's actually running for judge now in my jurisdiction, and I will certainly be voting for him.

THAT is an honest lawyer.

THAT is how mechanics should charge for any job.

Think about it people: if a mechanic is working on your car for 10 minutes, how can there legitimately be an hour's worth of time charged for that job, when there's going to be 50 minutes of time used on other jobs? Apparently no one manages time cards, even at dealers. There's a thing called time card fraud, in the real world our HR departments have to pay attention to that every day.

If mechanics time cards were legit, their time sheet at the end of an 8 hour day would be way more than 8 hours.

Technically what mechanics do is illegal.

[LT4Greg]

Okay Petrol Head, next time your Camaro or other late model vehicle needs major work performed take it a Joe Snuffy or a so called shade tree mechanic that will charge pennies to do the work! See what kind of service and labor warranty you get with that! What you obviously don’t know or have a clue about that techicians(mechanics) work on commissions and they don’t get all the money for the repairs they perform on vehicles. It’s true they do spend a lot of money on tools, education and they have to pay for their own health insurance that a dealership or shop doesn’t offer. You make valid points but do you really want an inexperienced tech working on your expensive Camaro or other late model vehicle that doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to work on it and could possibly really f**k up your car and cost you serious money to get it fixed right! I’m done!

[Smokin19]

I used to have a welding fabrication shop. I used to charge a flat rate of $65 whether the job was 5 minutes or an hour. Welding consumables, electricity, equipment cost, I would not do the job for less.
I would tell people if you don't like the price, go buy a welder and the equipment and learn how to weld. The days of doing a job for $20 are over with.

[LT4Greg]

��Smokin19!!

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

Okay Petrol Head, next time your Camaro or other late model vehicle needs major work performed take it a Joe Snuffy or a so called shade tree mechanic that will charge pennies to do the work! See what kind of service and labor warranty you get with that! What you obviously don’t know or have a clue about that techicians(mechanics) work on commissions and they don’t get all the money for the repairs they perform on vehicles. It’s true they do spend a lot of money on tools, education and they have to pay for their own health insurance that a dealership or shop doesn’t offer. You make valid points but do you really want an inexperienced tech working on your expensive Camaro or other late model vehicle that doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to work on it and could possibly really f**k up your car and cost you serious money to get it fixed right! I’m done!

There is some disconnect here. What some don't seem to get is that there is a large divide between "reading a code" and "finding the problem". Many things can cause a "code", there is a process, a formal process, outlined by the manufacturer, precisely, to pinpoint what the problem is.

Book hours on a job are also set by the manufacturer. They do this to protect themselves for paying out warranty work, and it also protects the consumer. Now, it's not a perfect system, but it works pretty well overall. Sure, it is a motivation for the tech to work faster. The more R/O's they get in a day means more pay, but with the pro-bono "be back" hanging over their head, and the potential ding by a bad CSI, there is plenty of motivation to do it right the first time.

It's really that "independent" shop where you run the biggest risk of getting bent over. They don't have to answer to anybody, no recourse from a manufacturer hanging over their head, no guidelines as to what specification they have to follow or where they source the parts from, until you file a lawsuit against them. Now, I'm not saying all "Indies" run that way, in fact the vast majority are legit, just that this is where you run biggest risk in service, quality, and pricing.

[LT4Greg]

I agree MrChris!!��

[gmcvt]

There is also the misunderstanding about the labor rate. It is as much or more for determining what/how the technician is paid and not necessarily what the customer is charged. For the customer side, it should just be quoted as a job price and not based on hours. In this case, they charge 150.00 to pull a code and give you a diagnostic report. If you dont like it, go somewhere else. Most of the time, these shops will refund either all or a significant portion of the fee if you have the work performed.

If a timing belt service pays 5 hrs and the technician completes it in 8 (for various reasons) the customer doesn't pay more just because it took the tech longer. People like the OP would be screaming if they were charged by the ACTUAL hour, which is the very thing they are appealing to in this case. Many techs however will get it done sooner because they have spent thousands of dollars on tools to help them complete the job sooner and because of their experience.

Most shops will charge a diagnostic fee(even an expensive one), not only for the technicians time but also because of how many people will MILK you for free information if you let them. As someone who is in the business, it is unreal how many phone calls I field for people who just want free information. I dont make a penny for handing out free info. Which means I dont pay my bills.

So for all the criticism leveled against shops for overcharging customers (which does indeed happen) there is another side to this coin and that is the entitled expectation of a significant percentage of people (customers) out there who DONT have a clue as to how to resolve their problems but somehow are an authority, to tell people who DO know how to resolve the problems, how much they should charge. Their are abuses on both sides but imho, from 22 years of experience in this field, far to often the customer gets a pass and the shops/dealerships are demonized.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

Okay Petrol Head, next time your Camaro or other late model vehicle needs major work performed take it a Joe Snuffy or a so called shade tree mechanic that will charge pennies to do the work! See what kind of service and labor warranty you get with that! What you obviously don’t know or have a clue about that techicians(mechanics) work on commissions and they don’t get all the money for the repairs they perform on vehicles. It’s true they do spend a lot of money on tools, education and they have to pay for their own health insurance that a dealership or shop doesn’t offer. You make valid points but do you really want an inexperienced tech working on your expensive Camaro or other late model vehicle that doesn’t have the knowledge or experience to work on it and could possibly really f**k up your car and cost you serious money to get it fixed right! I’m done!

I want experienced techs but the pay and financial system needs to be fixed. Mechanics in general, no matter how good they are, are all rip off artists. Not even the most experienced tech should be getting 75.00+ for a diagnostic. Never. This is why no one really trusts mechanics. They're seen and money grabbing grease monkeys looking to do nothing but rip people off who don't know much about cars, and be real a-- holes to people who do.

There is no way that an experienced, well trained, and knowledgeable mechanic should be charging ANYONE more than 25.00 to run a diagnostic and find the problem with someone's car. And yes I am talking about factory trained, certified technicians. Not some shadetree mechanic who could screw your car up.

Mechanics have done well to earn the reputation they have. If you are one, I do not mince my words. Your business practices are questionable at best.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by gmcvt

If a timing belt service pays 5 hrs and the technician completes it in 8 (for various reasons) the customer doesn't pay more just because it took the tech longer. People like the OP would be screaming if they were charged by the ACTUAL hour, which is the very thing they are appealing to in this case. Many techs however will get it done sooner because they have spent thousands of dollars on tools to help them complete the job sooner and because of their experience.

My mechanic charged me for the exact amount of time it took him to do my timing belt and valve adjustment on my 2009 Accord V6. 5 hours at a reasonable $75.00/hr

With parts and labor out the door my timing belt/water pump/serpentine belt/valve adjustment/coolant flush was $650.00. I bought the parts myself.

I've seen the same job quoted at the dealer for $1300.

There are obviously very few honest mechanics like him in the world.