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Old 09-06-2017, 10:00 PM   #29
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That was fun to watch. Love VIR and you absolutely need to use the gators there. A lot of people are afraid to use them but you need them especially up the climbing esses. He was carrying serious speed through there and on the front straight. I think the front straight shows how good the aero and tires are. I saw mid 150s before he was on the brakes. Coming around that slight bend in the high 140s even is pretty exciting.

I wish they ran the traditional full course for the lightning lap but only because it's what I'm familiar with. I'd like to see what kind of speed they hit on the back straight and how much speed it could carry coming into the roller coaster.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:51 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by 1295/SS View Post
The ZL1 1LE, ZL1 and 3 year old Z28 all beat the flagship track car 350R. Interesting.
I'm not a fan of the GT350/GT350R at all. Nor the Z28 for that matter. But I gotta say, realistically, something seems off if the 15 Z28 beat the 16 GT350R when the Shelby has convincingly beaten the Z28 in every other test and comparison I have seen. Something doesn't quite add up. Unless this particular track doesn't play up to the Shelby's strengths. I can see the ZL1s beating it. But I'm a little curious about the Z28 beating it. I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:19 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.
I believe it may have had to do with the fact that the Z/28 is a really good cornering car as well.......
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Old 09-07-2017, 02:23 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
I'm not a fan of the GT350/GT350R at all. Nor the Z28 for that matter. But I gotta say, realistically, something seems off if the 15 Z28 beat the 16 GT350R when the Shelby has convincingly beaten the Z28 in every other test and comparison I have seen. Something doesn't quite add up. Unless this particular track doesn't play up to the Shelby's strengths. I can see the ZL1s beating it. But I'm a little curious about the Z28 beating it. I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.
Variable drivers and conditions with this format. Makes for great entertainment and a "rough" idea about a cars capability..... but far free from enough variables to determine which cars are faster (when close).
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Old 09-07-2017, 06:51 AM   #33
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The ZR1 is going to be insane! It's good to be on top of the world again.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:04 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
I'm not a fan of the GT350/GT350R at all. Nor the Z28 for that matter. But I gotta say, realistically, something seems off if the 15 Z28 beat the 16 GT350R when the Shelby has convincingly beaten the Z28 in every other test and comparison I have seen. Something doesn't quite add up. Unless this particular track doesn't play up to the Shelby's strengths. I can see the ZL1s beating it. But I'm a little curious about the Z28 beating it. I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.
The Z/28 isn't nearly as outclassed by the R as some results make you believe. One owner I talked to with both a Z and GT350R says hes faster on his home track in the Z. It was a phenomenal car for what it was. Watching the head to head of the Z vs the GT350R on motor trend made me cringe. All of a sudden the car that had won "best drivers car" the year before and had heaps of praise from every rag out there suddenly was an over steering drift machine a year later. Something seemed off on that test.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:13 AM   #35
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Nice! Full 6 seconds faster than the GT350R....wait doesn't that put the ZL1 1LE a couple of race classes above the GT350R? Meh, things like lap times don't matter, the GT350R sounds better....
The ZL1 1LE times don't matter at all, because they are on a different day then the GT350R.... lol
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:32 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
I'm not a fan of the GT350/GT350R at all. Nor the Z28 for that matter. But I gotta say, realistically, something seems off if the 15 Z28 beat the 16 GT350R when the Shelby has convincingly beaten the Z28 in every other test and comparison I have seen. Something doesn't quite add up. Unless this particular track doesn't play up to the Shelby's strengths. I can see the ZL1s beating it. But I'm a little curious about the Z28 beating it. I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.
Different Day different drivers.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:46 AM   #37
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of course you guys saw the mishap Car and Driver had before the uphill esses when they were greedy trying to squeak out the last few tenths?? They bent a wheel and had to have repairs.
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Old 09-07-2017, 09:48 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
I'm not a fan of the GT350/GT350R at all. Nor the Z28 for that matter. But I gotta say, realistically, something seems off if the 15 Z28 beat the 16 GT350R when the Shelby has convincingly beaten the Z28 in every other test and comparison I have seen. Something doesn't quite add up. Unless this particular track doesn't play up to the Shelby's strengths. I can see the ZL1s beating it. But I'm a little curious about the Z28 beating it. I hate to be the one to come to the Shelby's defense but it really IS a good cornering car and I can't see how the Z28 could beat it.
The Z28 had a ton of grip and significantly more tq at midrange rpms. I think there was a large part of the tq band where the Z had 90-100 more tq.
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Old 09-07-2017, 11:24 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Co2SS View Post
I believe it may have had to do with the fact that the Z/28 is a really good cornering car as well.......
There has to be more to it than that. The Z28 is a good cornering car. But I don't think it corners as well as the GT350R. If we're seeing different drivers with different skill levels, even amongst pros, piloting different cars and on tracks that are suited for different types of engines and the way these engines make power, then I can see the Z28 keeping up. But I don't think the Z28 is as capable as the Shelby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninetres View Post
Variable drivers and conditions with this format. Makes for great entertainment and a "rough" idea about a cars capability..... but far free from enough variables to determine which cars are faster (when close).
I can agree with this. But I don't think these types of tests are enough to say which car is better when they are close. I fully believe the ZL1 1LE is way better than the Shelby. But I don't think the Z28 is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsgn View Post
The Z/28 isn't nearly as outclassed by the R as some results make you believe. One owner I talked to with both a Z and GT350R says hes faster on his home track in the Z. It was a phenomenal car for what it was. Watching the head to head of the Z vs the GT350R on motor trend made me cringe. All of a sudden the car that had won "best drivers car" the year before and had heaps of praise from every rag out there suddenly was an over steering drift machine a year later. Something seemed off on that test.
Some of these tests seem a bit inaccurate or inconsistent enough to be reliable. Again I hate to stick up for the Shelby, but I'm an enthusiast and I gotta call it how I see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4z View Post
The Z28 had a ton of grip and significantly more tq at midrange rpms. I think there was a large part of the tq band where the Z had 90-100 more tq.
If that is the case and this particular track plays to the Z28's particular strengths and all the Shelby's weaknesses are exploited here then the exact opposite can happen. There can be tracks that play to the Shelby's strengths and exploit the Z28's weaknesses as well. In which case neither car is actually better. It's just that some cars are better suited for some tracks and not as good on other tracks.
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Old 09-07-2017, 12:28 PM   #40
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C+D Lightning Lap results are in for ZL1 1LE

Plus the ZL1, too. NB SS 1LE did 54.8 there last year. Given some published data it is amazing how good stock Goodyear S3 tires are, albeit S3R is a bit better. Enjoy!

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...l-data-feature
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Old 09-07-2017, 12:56 PM   #41
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Yeah, both laps are a bit underwhelming if you ask me. He bleeds way too much speed in the esses in both cars- and his min speed through south-bend is higher in the SS 1LE.... which definitely shouldn't be the case as that's a 90+mph corner (very much aero speeds).
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:16 PM   #42
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It's too bad. I like everything about the C&D Lightning Laps (lap times, graphs/dashboard, footage),except the fact they use magazine editors for these tests and not only they don't use a pro racer, hot shoe like Randy Pobst, but also different drivers :/


Driver is the most important factor in the equation in putting consistent lap times and when ignored everything is in up in the air. Like apples to avocados
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