[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

Ive been trying not to respond here because Ive only had the Camaro a few weeks. But.
Yea. It doesnt have great visibility. You need to think about that as your driving it. But I cant see very well out of my F-250 either. I almost ordered it with the 360 degree cameras. But too expensive. I have decades of experience driving over dimensional tractor trailers. You really can judge by what you can see. Situational awareness and all that.
My wifes former Infinity has 360 degree cameras. It doesnt take much room. A small lens under the side mirrors. A little lens out front. Making it easy to park within an inch of the curb every time without risking a wheel. That would be a great option for Camaro. You can adjust your mirrors down to the wheel though.
But even though we bought this car as a daily driver, the visibility was not a substantial drawback compared to the reasons we wanted the car. The reason we didnt lease another QX50 is because they all have 4 cyl. engines now. Sorry. Not paying mid 40s for a midsized SUV sportin a 4 cyl. Not buying an F-150 sportin a 4 cyl.. yea yea turbo.. lots of power.. yaddayadda...Dealer Lots are filled with literally thousands of unsold SUVs with 4 cyl engines sitting. Even most of the Jeeps. You can find them into the 50s with a 4. Sorry. Not interested. BMW, Mercedes. Lots full. Q60s are nice. Well over 60 grand though. We had a 2013 we liked a lot. All wheel drive. Front engine rear drive dominant.
Now what we did buy the Camaro for... V-8... Stick... drop top... I have to admit I fought my wifes desire for a ragg top for 30 years. Yea its going to have issues. Shes going to love it though. This point in our lives the enjoyment is worth it.
Every once in a while Ive needed to sit up straight to look over the hood. I feel like the sun visor is down all the time. I just see it as personality.
The electric cars are coming whether were interested or not. 90% of the cars on the market are toaster ovens. Appliances... I have zero interest. I remember the 60s. Waiting for the new car linups to come out... drooling over them...
Climate change...politics...political correctness...
So were in a V-8 6mt convertible or a 3/4 ton truck. Soon enough that will no longer be possible.
If you cant see out just buy something else.

MR's 2SS, you sound like a man I could be friends with

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MR's 2SS

Ive been trying not to respond here because Ive only had the Camaro a few weeks. But.
Yea. It doesnt have great visibility. You need to think about that as your driving it. But I cant see very well out of my F-250 either. I almost ordered it with the 360 degree cameras. But too expensive. I have decades of experience driving over dimensional tractor trailers. You really can judge by what you can see. Situational awareness and all that.
My wifes former Infinity has 360 degree cameras. It doesnt take much room. A small lens under the side mirrors. A little lens out front. Making it easy to park within an inch of the curb every time without risking a wheel. That would be a great option for Camaro. You can adjust your mirrors down to the wheel though.
But even though we bought this car as a daily driver, the visibility was not a substantial drawback compared to the reasons we wanted the car. The reason we didnt lease another QX50 is because they all have 4 cyl. engines now. Sorry. Not paying mid 40s for a midsized SUV sportin a 4 cyl. Not buying an F-150 sportin a 4 cyl.. yea yea turbo.. lots of power.. yaddayadda...Dealer Lots are filled with literally thousands of unsold SUVs with 4 cyl engines sitting. Even most of the Jeeps. You can find them into the 50s with a 4. Sorry. Not interested. BMW, Mercedes. Lots full. Q60s are nice. Well over 60 grand though. We had a 2013 we liked a lot. All wheel drive. Front engine rear drive dominant.
Now what we did buy the Camaro for... V-8... Stick... drop top... I have to admit I fought my wifes desire for a ragg top for 30 years. Yea its going to have issues. Shes going to love it though. This point in our lives the enjoyment is worth it.
Every once in a while Ive needed to sit up straight to look over the hood. I feel like the sun visor is down all the time. I just see it as personality.
The electric cars are coming whether were interested or not. 90% of the cars on the market are toaster ovens. Appliances... I have zero interest. I remember the 60s. Waiting for the new car linups to come out... drooling over them...
Climate change...politics...political correctness...
So were in a V-8 6mt convertible or a 3/4 ton truck. Soon enough that will no longer be possible.
If you cant see out just buy something else.

And you sir win the prize for the day if there was such a thing. You have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head.

It's why the Camaro is THE best performing car in the segment but languishes a distant 3rd in sales. Because customers are doing exactly what you suggest, buying something else.

Remember the quote from Bob Lutz? "You can a young man's car to an old man but you can't sell and old man's car to a young man".

If you want a coupe that has decent visibility, fits two golf bags in the trunk and could seat 4 adults in a jam you aren't going to buy a Camaro. It's automatically out of your consideration set.

Now if you just want the best performing car.............

[MR's 2SS]

I agree. 1st world problems. Which incredibly competent vehicle do I choose this year?
Luckily we can have both. Just not in one vehicle.
I can haul 5 adults, all 5 of their golf bags, and trailer 5 golf carts for them with my truck and have 10,000 lbs of reserve towing capacity with the truck. And get about 12 mpg while doing so. Even through 2 feet of snow.
Or my wife and I can ride down to the jersey shore with the top down and 2 overnight bags. Not in the snow though.

[JSH]

Viability in '20 is not quite as good as in my two GTRs, but it's not bad

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Invertalon

I still find it laughable how people always grasp at thinking things were always better in the past.

Cars are more reliable and safer than they have have been. The structural design, materials and analysis/testing is far superior.

Cars don't rust out like they used to. Materials/coatings have come quite a ways in the past few decades. You basically don't have to worry about getting at least 10 years out of any vehicle, even driven in the worst corrosive conditions.

People hold onto their cars longer than ever. A big reason is because they continue to drive well, be reliable and maintenance costs are not driving them to new vehicles.

You basically have to do nothing but routine maintenance on most cars up through 100,000 miles. Tires, fluid, brakes...

Of course you have some design failures and exceptions, but this has occurred all through history.



As far as visibility, I have zero issue in the Camaro. Never once have I thought to myself "I can't see!" or had additional difficulty in making various turns or knowing what was in my blind spots and such. I wouldn't change anything about the belt line or anything else that makes this car real special to me. Love it as is.

The only thing better now than then is the high technology. Everything else sucks compared to then.

[DorsoDuroJohn]

Originally Posted by JSH

Viability in '20 is not quite as good as in my two GTRs, but it's not bad

Um, excuse me? TWO GTR's? pics or it didn't happen.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

The only thing better now than then is the high technology. Everything else sucks compared to then.

For example?

In order for your reply to hold water, you have to have arguments with thought put into it, like the post you replied to.

Sent from toaster or something

[JSH]

Originally Posted by DorsoDuroJohn

Um, excuse me? TWO GTR's? pics or it didn't happen.

Since when does anyone here substantiate anything they post? LOL
A bunch of HP numbers would have be revised if they did!

Anyway... 2013 and 2016

[Max2075]

The G6 Camaro visibility sucks....................and I don't care. The worst is when you are at an angle trying to pull into traffic and you have to look through that big ass B pillar looking over your right shoulder. It literally blocks a block worth of traffic. But its still worth it. drive smart and plan ahead for the roads you are on.

[CamaroSSStlfan]

Originally Posted by Max2075

The G6 Camaro visibility sucks....................and I don't care. The worst is when you are at an angle trying to pull into traffic and you have to look through that big ass B pillar looking over your right shoulder. It literally blocks a block worth of traffic. But its still worth it. drive smart and plan ahead for the roads you are on.

I don't have problems passing to my right. It's the driver side that's the killer. Gotta use the mirrors looking over the shoulder does no good unless you stick your head out the window like Ace Ventura.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Max2075

The G6 Camaro visibility sucks....................and I don't care. The worst is when you are at an angle trying to pull into traffic and you have to look through that big ass B pillar looking over your right shoulder. It literally blocks a block worth of traffic. But its still worth it. drive smart and plan ahead for the roads you are on.

Yeah that sucks. Now a days I’ll turn right out of parking lots rather than left across multiple lanes.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Wrecks24

... they talk about the bad visibility....

No visibility issues here!

[MR's 2SS]

Drove it to work this morning. Going to put the snows on after work. I really have no issue seeing out while driving. Yes its cramped. Im 5'8" and I have the seat all the way back. I think theres more room in the coups. But Im perfectly comfortable and I see everywhere I need while actually driving. Its only been 400 miles but I do fear curbing a thousand dollars worth of tire and wheel... and somehow I managed to hit my head on the sun visor. Not sure how that happened but the roof is close. Merging onto the highway in North Jersey I did not feel as though I was at any disadvantage. I did use the mirror as well as looking over my shoulder though.
I am disturbed that the dry salt got all over everything though. Im going to care more about this vehicle than I have about any other in a long time. That means Im going to have additional work to do all the time...
I have not touched 4,000 RPM yet but already I dont see any of those issue keeping me from loving this car.
It sounds like I want... steers like I expect, handles like few others Ive driven. Maybe not quite Porche like... but really close enough.
In the midlife years we had sedans and small SUVs. We emerged and now the empty nest phase. Young enough that its only a minor inconvenience getting my butt into the Recaro seats. Out... maybe a little more. Dont care about golf clubs.
Want to take issue with visibility? Drive a 75 foot lowbed with a 13'6" wide machine on through a residential area or into NYC. Or better yet back out... around turns and all because some clown gave the wrong directions.
A LOT of things are better now than back in the 60s or 70s... Our memory is jaded because you mostly remember the good stuff. But the times were better. Even in the 60s with a sort of equal division existing in the country. Times were better.
The cars did rust faster. You NEEDED to wax regularly or the paint turned into a chalk board. My buddies 69 Camaro with cam, LT1 heads and a lot of other mods was the fastest guy around after highschool... Turning 11.2 on street legalish Micky Ts. A new Camaro can be bought that will come close to that right off the showroom floor. New they were mostly under $4,000.00. Sonoco 260 was under 40 cents a gallon at 95 octane.
I remember when 100,000 miles on a car was a lot. Now 200,000 is fairly common. But we also drive way more. Most of us worked closer to home. Minimum wage was not something anyone cared about. In highschool I worked at a deli for min wage at $1.75/ hr. I quit and was pumping gas for $2.25/hr.... My dad was able to buy a 4 bedroom house in nice middle class suburbia on a salary around $10,000.00/year.
So yes a lot of things were a lot better then than now. I also didnt have a care in the world because I was a kid.
But cars were a different thing then. All my first cars were second hand family cars. But they were still cool... desirable... My first car was 1963 Galaxie 500... a 4 door which I hated but even in 4 door trim they looked right. 390, White with red interior. Then a 1963 Buick Riv... thats the one I wish I still had. Was a POS then though because it was old and abused. But it looked great. Still does. An 1976 I had a 72 GTO with a 400 SB.. automatic on the column and a bench seat... But it was fast as hell and was cherry. I paid $1200 for it from an old guy who had used it as his family car.
I dont know the math. But things dont add up the same today. The jobs for regular working class people have been shipped overseas. Our high quality stuff has been replaced with total garbage. I mean things like socks... toasters... tools... all crap that is cheap to buy... might not work right even one time.. and surely wont last like the Craftsmen wrenches I got when I was 11 to work on my Schwinn... Most of which are still in the tool box in as good a shape as the newer stuff.
OK enough rant... sorry...
Wait... one more thing, so my first car was a Galxie 500.... the equivalent now would be what? A Taurus? Can anyone envision spending money to put custom wheels on an old Taurus? A set of headers??? I guess the kids are doing this with Honda Civics and the like. Lowered and fancy wheels... tinted windows...
Our new Camaro is a way nicer car than the 69 at the time it was new. In fact a new Camaro would probably win at Le mans... in 69... whith the A/C on sipping a latte....

[Walkure]

Sometimes at a stop light I have to look over the top of the window to see the light. I guess if I had a roof it would be a problem. Otherwise, no visibility issues.