[TMS]

Originally Posted by Mick0311

Why a narrow and wide band vs one or the other?
I understand the pros to going with the wide band over the narrow band.
Is the ECM seeing both or is it just used for tuning?

GM typically uses narrow band O2 sensors. The factory narrow band sensors work with the factory ECU. They don’t tell you what the actual AFR is. They only tell you if you are above (leaner) or below (richer) than commanded lambda (AFR). The wideband will actually measure specific AFR which is need for tuning. The factory narrow bands must remain as that is what the ECU uses to make fuel adjustments.

[TMS]

Originally Posted by kgf

Your install looks good. Very interested in installing sensor in same location. What is involved in removing the passenger side catalytic converter?



Does it require unbolting both sides at the factory header and dropping down or do you have to remove more of the exhaust system to remove the cat?



I don't have a lift and will have to remove this on jack stands. Any instructions will be appreciated.

Pretty easy. Remove the 4 bolts at the factory header collector to the primary cat. Then remove those same studs from the factory header. Do the same with the two nuts and studs on the flange mounting the primary to the secondary. It drops right out.

[Mick0311]

Originally Posted by TMS

GM typically uses narrow band O2 sensors. The factory narrow band sensors work with the factory ECU. They don’t tell you what the actual AFR is. They only tell you if you are above (leaner) or below (richer) than commanded lambda (AFR). The wideband will actually measure specific AFR which is need for tuning. The factory narrow bands must remain as that is what the ECU uses to make fuel adjustments.

Interesting. On Harleys we can replace the NB, plug the bungs and just use the WB with the appropriate tuner. The tuner tells the ECM what to read.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Mick0311

Interesting. On Harleys we can replace the NB, plug the bungs and just use the WB with the appropriate tuner. The tuner tells the ECM what to read.

Can't do that the computer will never go in to closed loop and will set codes.

The car runs using feedback from the narrow bands 90+% of the time.

It but the computer ignores them at WOT or Open Loop so we need the Wide band to know if the calibration is achieving commanded AFR.

Ted.

[Mick0311]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Can't do that the computer will never go in to closed loop and will set codes.

The car runs using feedback from the narrow bands 90+% of the time.

It but the computer ignores them at WOT or Open Loop so we need the Wide band to know if the calibration is achieving commanded AFR.

Ted.

Learn something new everyday.

[beemer105]

Ted,

Do you have any experience with a wideband like the Dynojet Wideband2 which has the function to provide emulated narrowband output?

I was thinking you could then only use widebands and emulate the narrowband for the stock ECU.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by beemer105

Ted,

Do you have any experience with a wideband like the Dynojet Wideband2 which has the function to provide emulated narrowband output?

I was thinking you could then only use widebands and emulate the narrowband for the stock ECU.

Sorry I do not.

[kgf]

Originally Posted by TMS

Pretty easy. Remove the 4 bolts at the factory header collector to the primary cat. Then remove those same studs from the factory header. Do the same with the two nuts and studs on the flange mounting the primary to the secondary. It drops right out.

Thanks TMS for the instructions. Sounds like it will be easy enough.

Thanks to Ted also.

[Z0Tex]

Originally Posted by TMS

This is where I put mine (passenger side).

Originally Posted by TMS

None

Any concerns about the angle which your WB/bung are mounted? I'm about to add an AEM wideband to my factory exhaust in the same location (thanks to your pictures!!!) and the AEM documentation says that the sensor can't be tilted down and needs to be tilted "up" by about 10* (connector side up, sensor tip "down") to prevent condensation build up in the sensor tip.

[gotswap]

Not sure how long condensation would last being that close to the heads, the heat would remove it in seconds

[Z0Tex]

Originally Posted by gotswap

Not sure how long condensation would last being that close to the heads, the heat would remove it in seconds

I agree, but AEM thinks its enough of an issue to warrant putting a warning in their documentation for it. That's why I asked. See page 12...

https://www.aemelectronics.com/files...ller-Gauge.pdf

Looking at TMS's photos again above, it may not be an issue since the pipe at that location is not 100% vertical and the O2 sensor, if the bung is welded perpendicular to the pipe with no angle, wont be 100% horizontal. The angle his installed pictures were taken from might be throwing off my perspective some.

[Dysan911]

I built a Timing Circuit that delays the Wideband from heating up and working for about 1 minute in order to give time for any heavy condensation to evaporate.

Its a nice little harness I made complete with a 12volt relay. There are only 3 wires to connect. Ground, your regular 12volt Power and the there's a 12 volt OUT that is the one that has the 1 minute delay.

I can send you info on it or mine is avail for $45 PM me if interested.

[TMS]

Originally Posted by Z0Tex

I agree, but AEM thinks its enough of an issue to warrant putting a warning in their documentation for it. That's why I asked. See page 12...

https://www.aemelectronics.com/files...ller-Gauge.pdf

Looking at TMS's photos again above, it may not be an issue since the pipe at that location is not 100% vertical and the O2 sensor, if the bung is welded perpendicular to the pipe with no angle, wont be 100% horizontal. The angle his installed pictures were taken from might be throwing off my perspective some.

This. It’s perpendicular. It probably angles down very slightly. However, never a problem that I’ve experienced. Also, AEM likely expects that the wideband signal is feeding an ECU for dynamic air/fuel adjustments and obviously would want the optimum position. This is not the case of the wideband on our applications. It is simply to acquire data for logging and after the fact tuning adjustments. The narrowband sensors are retained and used for real-time adjustments. I think the warning is probably less relevant in our case.

Just my thoughts.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by TMS

It is simply to acquire data for logging and after the fact tuning adjustments.

JRE posted last week that, if properly calibrated on the dyno(?), our Gen 6 tunes should not require future adjustments. You're indicating here that is not the case.