[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by JROC

There's a wise old saying that goes, "familiarity breeds attraction."

For example I'm a white Cracker, but my wife is a black African-American. I grew up hanging around mostly black people. Don't get me wrong I had white friends too, but most of the white girls hanging out weren't interested in white boys, but many black girls were. For this reason I gained a huge attraction for black women, and as a result dated and fornicated with way more black women than I ever did with white or Hispanic women.

Same with music. If all you listen to is rap then you would likely think it's the best music, the same for if a you listen to is heavy metal, or punk rock or whatever.

Point being I used to hate the 2019's. When I saw the 1LE's I thought they looked pretty good, but still preferred the 17/18's. Still I got my 1LE for a nice deal IMO and went with it. Over the last few months I've really warmed up to the 19's to the point where I've started to prefer them depending on color to the older GEN6 cars. Don't get me wrong I like the 16-18. I like their taillights and the clean looking frontend. Still like it or not the 19's really standout. I have to say for such an ugly, poor selling car it sure does garner a lot of positive comments pretty much wherever I go.

Go with the one you like the most or that gives you the better overall deal. There are a few differences and features, but at their heart they are the same cars.

Well, now that OP is done with the thread, he probably won't mind me jacking it slightly to discuss these points you're making, JROC

There is a lot of truth to what you're saying about familiarity, we can carve deep ruts into our synapses and then easily and comfortably reject any new input that threatens to disturb that sensation of familiarity and the associated emotional safety.

This isn't the whole story, though (in human relationships, "familiarity breeds contempt" as well, but that's just a small aside). Design and esthetics are subjective, neither "good" nor "bad" at many levels (including your taste in the other sex or choice of music genres), but they aren't entirely subjective. The quality of an overall design isn't dictated by its popularity or financial success either, there are tomes and classes, even entire tracks in academia dedicated to how quality industrial design can be produced and maintained.

For example, the Cybertruck is clearly a nonchalant middle finger to the world, the ultimate expression of Musk's disdain towards entrenched players in the automotive industry---but from a design point of view, it's simply crap. Everyone knows that, but the design and marketing around it cunningly plays to modern day outrage and flash mob culture as well as the cult-ish Tesla "followership" to counter initial negative reactions and to keep the bandwagon of cool in motion, which can be seen as a genius business move, but hardly a product worth design quality awards.

The problem with the Camaro's 2019 redesign isn't that it's different, it's that it feels half assed: certain highly visible parts were hastily modified to cheaply address lower than expected sales numbers, in a realization that the target audience for the car may have been too narrowly chosen. The new lines do not fit with the overall design theme of the car, either front or rear, they produce constant visual dissonance even though the taillights (especially when lit in the dark) do harken back to older Camaro generations.

Also, it's hard not to recognize the quick design shortcuts taken to generate some, presumably committee-approved, conformance in making the front end similar to the Accord or the Charger, cars that both sell in higher numbers to a different audience (source: carsalesbase.com)

I believe these are the main and mostly subconscious reasons a lot of us 2016-2018 owners, who already loved the car before the redesign, tend not to take well to the changes. I have personally seen tens of 2019's, LT's and SS's and 1LE's up close and from a distance, and the design changes aren't going to "take to" many of us. At the end of the day, GM updated the biggest visual discrepancy for the 2020 model year, which alone says a lot.

Trust me, I have zero envy or jealousy towards 2019 owners, it'd be petty and ridiculous anyway, plus I could upgrade any time if I wanted to, I'm just sad to see such sloppy work tarnishing the initial beauty of the 6th gen. That's it. The rest of the car is still absolutely amazing, the new features are cool, too---and maybe that also has something to do with all those positive comments you're getting.

And, as always with this kind of stuff, this is only my 2 cents' worth and please pardon me for the length. Happy to hear out any arguments to the contrary or be corrected in whatever I may have gotten wrong.

[VcrusaderV]

Originally Posted by Canadian GP

$4000 Canadian.

Are you the guy from PPCLINF?? I did some work with the years ago.

[JROC]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Well, now that OP is done with the thread, he probably won't mind me jacking it slightly to discuss these points you're making, JROC

There is a lot of truth to what you're saying about familiarity, we can carve deep ruts into our synapses and then easily and comfortably reject any new input that threatens to disturb that sensation of familiarity and the associated emotional safety.

This isn't the whole story, though (in human relationships, "familiarity breeds contempt" as well, but that's just a small aside). Design and esthetics are subjective, neither "good" nor "bad" at many levels (including your taste in the other sex or choice of music genres), but they aren't entirely subjective. The quality of an overall design isn't dictated by its popularity or financial success either, there are tomes and classes, even entire tracks in academia dedicated to how quality industrial design can be produced and maintained.

For example, the Cybertruck is clearly a nonchalant middle finger to the world, the ultimate expression of Musk's disdain towards entrenched players in the automotive industry---but from a design point of view, it's simply crap. Everyone knows that, but the design and marketing around it cunningly plays to modern day outrage and flash mob culture as well as the cult-ish Tesla "followership" to counter initial negative reactions and to keep the bandwagon of cool in motion, which can be seen as a genius business move, but hardly a product worth design quality awards.

The problem with the Camaro's 2019 redesign isn't that it's different, it's that it feels half assed: certain highly visible parts were hastily modified to cheaply address lower than expected sales numbers, in a realization that the target audience for the car may have been too narrowly chosen. The new lines do not fit with the overall design theme of the car, either front or rear, they produce constant visual dissonance even though the taillights (especially when lit in the dark) do harken back to older Camaro generations.

Also, it's hard not to recognize the quick design shortcuts taken to generate some, presumably committee-approved, conformance in making the front end similar to the Accord or the Charger, cars that both sell in higher numbers to a different audience (source: carsalesbase.com)

I believe these are the main and mostly subconscious reasons a lot of us 2016-2018 owners, who already loved the car before the redesign, tend not to take well to the changes. I have personally seen tens of 2019's, LT's and SS's and 1LE's up close and from a distance, and the design changes aren't going to "take to" many of us. At the end of the day, GM updated the biggest visual discrepancy for the 2020 model year, which alone says a lot.

Trust me, I have zero envy or jealousy towards 2019 owners, it'd be petty and ridiculous anyway, plus I could upgrade any time if I wanted to, I'm just sad to see such sloppy work tarnishing the initial beauty of the 6th gen. That's it. The rest of the car is still absolutely amazing, the new features are cool, too---and maybe that also has something to do with all those positive comments you're getting.

And, as always with this kind of stuff, this is only my 2 cents' worth and please pardon me for the length. Happy to hear out any arguments to the contrary or be corrected in whatever I may have gotten wrong.

Okay, but I'm not looking for anyone to be envious or jealous of my car. Envy and jealousy are generally not good things. It sounds like the 19's aren't for you so stick with your 16-18 or get a 20. IMO the 19 might be trying too hard to get attention, but the 16-18 would fit the bill for being half-assed. Why I say this is because it looks very similar to a 14/15 GEN5. Not that it's a bad looking car (I personally like the 16-18 cars) just that GM built a whole new car, but made it tough to distinguish it between the car it replaced. After all the ridicule they received for playing it safe and staying with a design that sold, but those sells not transferring to the new GEN they tried getting more extreme with the design and apparently looked to a Spartan helmet for design. It turned out even less popular overall.

The problem is people don't really know what they like. Many still hate the 19 design, but I've seen quite a few commenting on YT about how they initially hated it, but have grown to prefer it. I love the new Silverado design, but many still don't. Give it a while and the same haters will act like it's the best looking truck there is. I never loved the 18 Mustang design, but always preferred it to the 15-17's. Many still prefer the looks of the early S550's though. Different people like different things. If you're happy with what you have then stick with it.

I see much hate for the look of the 19's on the internet, but I get more complements on my 1LE than any other car I've owned and I've owned some pretty nice Mustangs and Camaros. BTW I agree with Tyestick that some of the colors on the 19's really set their looks off better than others. Orange for example really sets the 19's off, and I'm not usually an orange car guy.

I think it looks nice.

[gtfoxy]

Originally Posted by JROC

There's a wise old saying that goes, "familiarity breeds attraction."

For example I'm a white Cracker, but my wife is a black African-American. I grew up hanging around mostly black people. Don't get me wrong I had white friends too, but most of the white girls hanging out weren't interested in white boys, but many black girls were. For this reason I gained a huge attraction for black women, and as a result dated and fornicated with way more black women than I ever did with white or Hispanic women.

Same with music. If all you listen to is rap then you would likely think it's the best music, the same for if a you listen to is heavy metal, or punk rock or whatever.

Point being I used to hate the 2019's. When I saw the 1LE's I thought they looked pretty good, but still preferred the 17/18's. Still I got my 1LE for a nice deal IMO and went with it. Over the last few months I've really warmed up to the 19's to the point where I've started to prefer them depending on color to the older GEN6 cars. Don't get me wrong I like the 16-18. I like their taillights and the clean looking frontend. Still like it or not the 19's really standout. I have to say for such an ugly, poor selling car it sure does garner a lot of positive comments pretty much wherever I go.

Go with the one you like the most or that gives you the better overall deal. There are a few differences and features, but at their heart they are the same cars.

Dude, really? You & I have analogous experiences with women, but I kinda get your point.

[Lostx403]

As someone in similar shoes recently, in Canada as well, I was looking at either going with a used low mileage 2018 SS or a brand new 2019 SS.

For me personally I don't have an issue with the front end on the '19, would I rather have the 18 or 20 front? Sure, if I had to choose. But after reading articles, lurking these forums for a good while at that, watching videos, reddit posts, etc. The A8 shudder issue makes me not even want to chance it even if it sounds like there might actually be a solid fix for it now.

I'd rather have the A10 tranny over A8, don't have a problem with the front end or the rear tails, and also the fact that any dealer I spoke with didn't have incentives on any new 2020's they have in stock. So I'll take saving thousands of dollars on a car I like anyway instead of paying a premium just for the front end looking different.

[He11bent]

Originally Posted by IceGoaliePaul

I think forward collision alert was new on the 2019.

I wish, not on the 2019...maybe the 2020?

[Chutzpah]

Originally Posted by JROC

Okay, but I'm not looking for anyone to be envious or jealous of my car. Envy and jealousy are generally not good things. It sounds like the 19's aren't for you so stick with your 16-18 or get a 20. IMO the 19 might be trying too hard to get attention, but the 16-18 would fit the bill for being half-assed. Why I say this is because it looks very similar to a 14/15 GEN5. Not that it's a bad looking car (I personally like the 16-18 cars) just that GM built a whole new car, but made it tough to distinguish it between the car it replaced. After all the ridicule they received for playing it safe and staying with a design that sold, but those sells not transferring to the new GEN they tried getting more extreme with the design and apparently looked to a Spartan helmet for design. It turned out even less popular overall.

The problem is people don't really know what they like. Many still hate the 19 design, but I've seen quite a few commenting on YT about how they initially hated it, but have grown to prefer it. I love the new Silverado design, but many still don't. Give it a while and the same haters will act like it's the best looking truck there is. I never loved the 18 Mustang design, but always preferred it to the 15-17's. Many still prefer the looks of the early S550's though. Different people like different things. If you're happy with what you have then stick with it.

I see much hate for the look of the 19's on the internet, but I get more complements on my 1LE than any other car I've owned and I've owned some pretty nice Mustangs and Camaros. BTW I agree with Tyestick that some of the colors on the 19's really set their looks off better than others. Orange for example really sets the 19's off, and I'm not usually an orange car guy.

I think it looks nice.

Not getting into any other part of the conversation...I think your car looks great. That’s it, over and out...

[JROC]

Originally Posted by Chutzpah

Not getting into any other part of the conversation...I think your car looks great. That’s it, over and out...

Thank you. I appreciate it.