[2010REDSS]

They don't sell enough Camaros because they don't try.

When's the last time you saw a Camaro commercial from GM?

They totally gave up on the model. It isn't the styling (which is great), it isn't the performance (amazing), they just want to sell trucks and SUVs (and now EV's).

It's that simple and that sad. Don't overthink it.

[waterman]

Originally Posted by Jofu

Oh, and I got curious about your location (20*51.50N 156*29.60W) You live in the middle of Maui?!? If so, VERY NICE!!!

I climbed Haleakala twice by bicycle, it's quite a funny thing to go from 0ft elevation all the way up to 10,000ft! I bet you can climb it a bit faster with you Camaro

Best,

Geoff

It's a great climb.

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

Sure seems they could sell plenty of those. I'd be all in.

Absolutely. Major weight loss, NA, a 9000 RPM redline, then lose some of the creature comforts and fat in the ZLE...Sold!

Originally Posted by CHerna

The DOHC V8 doesn't fit in the Alpha chassis. It was never going to happen to begin with.

I'm thinking that it would not be that problematic. Minor modification. LT2 (LT1/LT4 block) and LT6 fit into the C8, without modifying the chassis. The heads sit a little taller but you dump the SC and create a lower valley.
Plug and play... It's a Chevrolet.

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

This! It's why the Cadillac Blackwing doesn't have the Blackwing engine.

Perhaps, I was read that multiple sources stated that the Blackwing just did not bring the performance that Caddy had hoped for. LT4 was time tested and sitting in the parts bin Again, GM loves the plug and play capability.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM should have made a high performance 6.6 liter. CNC heads, more compression, more RPM. Would have been a great C7 Grand Sport and Z/28 engine.

Sexy!

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

I think that the writing was on the wall when Big Al got taken from the Camaro program.

Absolute truth!

Originally Posted by 2010REDSS

They don't sell enough Camaros because they don't try.

When's the last time you saw a Camaro commercial from GM?

They totally gave up on the model. It isn't the styling (which is great), it isn't the performance (amazing), they just want to sell trucks and SUVs (and now EV's).

It's that simple and that sad. Don't overthink it.

Yup, a very sad truth. Nothing will ever replace the ethereal experience of ICE and a manual. The acceleration associated with EV doesn't even come close for me.

[samurai]

It's pretty old news, Lethal had a video about 2 years ago on this topic? We saw a prototype of a Z/28 back then, but it was obviously GM cancelled all further Camaro developments for Gen 6.


Even for the visual packages I heard some things that GM is not really helping the Camaro team push the new packages they come up with. For some packages there never was an officiall announcement or even official pictures, they just appeared in the order guides

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by CHerna

The DOHC V8 doesn't fit in the Alpha chassis. It was never going to happen to begin with.

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

This! It's why the Cadillac Blackwing doesn't have the Blackwing engine.

Game…Set…Match.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM should have made a high performance 6.6 liter. CNC heads, more compression, more RPM. Would have been a great C7 Grand Sport and Z/28 engine.

Interesting…Mustang6 has a whole thread on how Ford should make a HiPo version of the 7.3L for Mustang. I imagine both things will happen right around the same time. IOW, never.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by waterman

….
I'm thinking that it would not be that problematic. Minor modification. LT2 (LT1/LT4 block) and LT6 fit into the C8, without modifying the chassis. The heads sit a little taller but you dump the SC and create a lower valley.
Plug and play... It's a Chevrolet.



Perhaps, I was read that multiple sources stated that the Blackwing just did not bring the performance that Caddy had hoped for. LT4 was time tested and sitting in the parts bin Again, GM loves the plug and play capability.



….

It literally does not package. It also doesn’t package in the T1XX platform (think Escalade). That’s why the kick-ass Escalade that’s likely on the way will have an LT4, not a Blackwing. There is a quote somewhere out on the interwebs where a Cadillac official stated that the Blackwing V8 doesn’t package in Escalade. CT5 was expected to get the next gen on the Omega platform (same platform as the CT6) instead of continuing on Alpha. Blackwing was designed around Omega platform. When CT6 died, so did Omega platform and that’s when the Blackwing V8 lost its home.

[LT4Greg]

Oh Lord, an Escalade with a LT4. People definitely will be driving like idiots in them worse than now thinking they’re driving a race truck.

[JitteryJoe]

But how similar are the Blackwing and 5.5 DOHC engines though? You're comparing an ultra wide TT V8 to an NA one so definitely not apples to apples. Not sure if there is a difference in the "V" angle between the DOHC 3.6 and the 5.5 but in theory they should be very similar with one just being 1/3 longer. There has to be something about the Blackwing specifically if it can't even fit into a huge truck engine bay.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by ZL1 1LE

I think that the writing was on the wall when Big Al got taken from the Camaro program.

Pretty sure he wasn't "taken".

Originally Posted by 2010REDSS

They don't sell enough Camaros because they don't try.

When's the last time you saw a Camaro commercial from GM?

They totally gave up on the model. It isn't the styling (which is great), it isn't the performance (amazing), they just want to sell trucks and SUVs (and now EV's).

It's that simple and that sad. Don't overthink it.

OMG not this again.

Covered it so many times.

GM made a great Camaro, the best ever IMO. But to do that they accepted too many compromises that the other cars in the segment didn't. Trunk space, rear seat room (GM admitted this at launch) and of course the biggest the slammed roof, high belt line styling (read that as poor visibility). You cannot advertise your way to sales on vehicle which was designed and engineered for a very specific customer.

Best analogy is GM made the very best Left Handed catchers mitt. But you are saying if they advertised on TV, Right Handed players would most certainly buy it. If they only knew. GM knows this and it's why they don't advertise. It's already a very limited market and their car was designed to appeal to Camaro enthusiasts, not "sporty coupe" buyers, let alone the general public. And internally, GM knows this as well.

Sorry, but that is the reality that no one wants to see. If GM could make more money with a simple TV commercial it would have been done. Simple as that.

And lastly.....Ford doesn't advertise the Mustang and it is the segment leader, although the last data I saw showed the Challenger still gaining.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by JitteryJoe

But how similar are the Blackwing and 5.5 DOHC engines though? You're comparing an ultra wide TT V8 to an NA one so definitely not apples to apples. Not sure if there is a difference in the "V" angle between the DOHC 3.6 and the 5.5 but in theory they should be very similar with one just being 1/3 longer. There has to be something about the Blackwing specifically if it can't even fit into a huge truck engine bay.

Not a difference in V angle. Big difference in where the turbos mount.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Pretty sure he wasn't "taken".



OMG not this again.

Covered it so many times.

GM made a great Camaro, the best ever IMO. But to do that they accepted too many compromises that the other cars in the segment didn't. Trunk space, rear seat room (GM admitted this at launch) and of course the biggest the slammed roof, high belt line styling (read that as poor visibility). You cannot advertise your way to sales on vehicle which was designed and engineered for a very specific customer.

Best analogy is GM made the very best Left Handed catchers mitt. But you are saying if they advertised on TV, Right Handed players would most certainly buy it. If they only knew. GM knows this and it's why they don't advertise. It's already a very limited market and their car was designed to appeal to Camaro enthusiasts, not "sporty coupe" buyers, let alone the general public. And internally, GM knows this as well.

Sorry, but that is the reality that no one wants to see. If GM could make more money with a simple TV commercial it would have been done. Simple as that.

And lastly.....Ford doesn't advertise the Mustang and it is the segment leader, although the last data I saw showed the Challenger still gaining.

I love that analogy! I’ll probably steal it.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Interesting…Mustang6 has a whole thread on how Ford should make a HiPo version of the 7.3L for Mustang. I imagine both things will happen right around the same time. IOW, never.

Ford doesn’t need the 7.3 in a Mustang because they develop other engines for it, where GM would more likely cancel the Camaro than develop an engine for the Camaro alone.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM should have made a high performance 6.6 liter. CNC heads, more compression, more RPM. Would have been a great C7 Grand Sport and Z/28 engine.

The problem with this is durability and cost.

The L8T 6.6L, which is based off the the other LT1/L86/L87/L83/L84 Gen V V8's, is basically a stroked LT1/L86/L87. You add stroke and RPM... you are going the wrong direction for robust high-RPM engine. It can be done, but costs a lot more time and money to carry out.

-Increased relative piston speed.
-Increased frictional losses between the cylinder wall and rings and piston skirts.
-Increased relative stresses on the rods and crank.

You're better off, for where Camaro is currently, taking the LT2 and just adding RPM - new camshafts, modified heads and new valvetrain.

A DOHC, VCT, large-bore, short- or medium-stroke V8 is, really, the way to go for something like a next-gen Z/28 though.

A FPC adds in additional investigation towards the NVH put into the vehicle in respect to driver/passenger experience and also the vibrations into the powertrain/drivetrain attachments (engine mounts, front cradle, exhaust, exhaust mounts, transmission, clutch/converter, transmission mount... all down into the rear diff). All of that was a HUGE deal for Ford with the GT350 and GT350R-C.

[RLHMARINES]

This is supposedly what's upcoming in the Corvette Z06 flat-plane crank V8 engine block without heads. I'll just leave this here for scrutiny.